Archers thread #203: It's Affair Cop! Discuss The Archers here.

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Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you would love to attend Pip's wedding with Natasha and the starry twins, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-12-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Starting the new thread a bit early as I'm not sure I'll have much internet access for the next few days. Fill up the old one first. And then - over to you!

(Credit for the thread title goes to @TripleSulko.)

How much say do the trustees have? I mean, I know the answer is, "as much as it suits the current storyline," but IRL, could they say, "Freddie needs to demonstrate experience in these areas, or he will inherit on his 30th birthday anyway" or something? It seems mad they could carry on till his 80s or whatever.

Also, Elizabeth has known he should inhwrit at some point. She's made little effort to make sure he gains relevant experience, so if he eventually screws it up, she holds at least some of the blame, though I suspect none of her plans included Freddie doing time.

And finally - plenty of estates have been ruined by a profligate son squandering the fortune It would be bad in terms of Pargeter history, but it's a risk of primogeniture, and in any case, Freddie will probably do excellently once Chelsea sorts him out...

Ooooh, that would be brilliant. It would be so enjoyable seeing Pip the Wunderkind Farmer having her nose put so thoroughly out of joint by the brother she's always tried to do down.

It depends whether she does a lot of Legal Aid work - which she probably does. Barristers being paid at Legal Aid rates are highly likely to think of £6K as being riches beyond their wildest dreams.

It's the anniversary of the Great Storm (night of 15th/i6th October 2967). I suspect the SWs thought it was reasonable enough to go for another big storm at this time of year.

If Lizzie had half a brain she’d have set it up for Freddie to gradually take over while sharing the many jobs involved with her and Lily. So it would function more like a family business and less like Simba singing ”I just can’t wait to be king”.

She could say - let’s work together for the next 18 months and then I’ll retire. I think her real problem is that she has no idea what SHE will do when he runs it. Job at Casey Meats, Liz?

That's my take on it too. The kids bit was a waste of air time.

1987?

Completely agree re Liz.

Also makes no sense that the shadowy trustees would suggest this without any evidence from either Liz or Freddie or Freddie’s employer or anyone at all that he is ready.

And why did she mention it when she had doubts? Surely the trustees would be communicating with him directly.

Liz has been excluding Freddie, as we saw from the business with Fallon, where both she and Freddie behaved unprofessionally and made Fallon feel very uncomfortable.

Freddie was supposed to inherit when he was 25. The drug dealing/prison sentence delayed the handover (I very much doubt that it was a condition of the Trust, but that’s the excuse they use now).

Aside from organising a tour of “stuff he found in the attic” and a stint overseeing the Orangery(?) for a couple of weeks, there seem to have been minimal attempts to involve him in any aspect of the business.

I seem to remember that Nigel’s mother, Julia, was forever interfering with the running of LL, so I see no reason why Elizabeth shouldn’t either.

I seem to remember that Nigel’s mother, Julia, was forever interfering with the running of LL, so I see no reason why Elizabeth shouldn’t either.

Yes, I wouldn't expect her to stop interfering, but Nigel was officially in charge, which Freddie isn't.

Sadly I think Keira is going to be even more irritating than Joy.

I like Keira.
She's having a hard time at school, not fitting in. I'm not surprised she was upset with Khalil suddenly not talking to her.

If Lizzie had half a brain she’d have set it up for Freddie to gradually take over while sharing the many jobs involved with her and Lily. So it would function more like a family business and less like Simba singing ”I just can’t wait to be king”. I completely agree @WitcheryDivine - instead she seems intent on actively keeping him away from the business. It definitely feels like a case of Lizzie not being ready to pass the baton rather than Freddie not being ready to step up to the plate. Her attachment to LL is understandable - it was she who helped turn it into a viable business when Nigel (loveable as he may have been) would have been pretty hopeless on his own. Lizzie is no Julia - she understands all the nuts and bolts of the Lower Loxley model because she put them all in place. If it was Lily who was inheriting she would have had no hesitation in working together for a gradual handover. The truth is she just doesn't think Freddie is up to the job, but isn't that the whole point/risk of primogeniture?
What was all that with the kids?
They all are keen for a future in farming but one's an Archer, one's a Grundy and one is 'the kid who had cancer'. Spot on @Every1ElseInKnowsley - and kind of an extension of the Freddie situation regarding who wins what in the lottery of life.

@ExitPursuedByABareHope you able to relax and pain is under control- how long does a neck take to heal?

I am relieved Pip is now arriving by ribbon-bedecked tractor at least- the only appropriate mode of transport for a farmer on her wedding day!

I think Freddie whines more than Keira (15) does.

If he wanted to prove himself he should have done what the sons of the upper middle class have always done and served in the army.

I agree. Ludicrous that tractor was not the first choice.

I agree, certainly re. the whining. IIRC, Elizabeth couldn't involve Freddie with the estate in the immediate aftermath of the prison sentence: he actually had to move out/not be involved at all, because LL would have lost its liquor licence otherwise. What I'm not clear on is how long that condition applied, but I'm pretty sure it applied until well after Freddie was working for Vince.

Having him work for Vince to gain management/work experience was actually a good move. But I'm a bit surprised that there do not seem to have been any off-screen conversations in the meantime about how that might translate to preparing for LL. The conversation with Vince showed that Freddie himself doesn't seem to have given much thought to it: the fact that he thought he could just apply to a senior position at a major estate without experience or training in estate management, and how upset he was to have his shortcomings in that area mentioned, shows to me that he's thick as toast, and Elizabeth should be worried that he'll run her work into the ground. At the very least from this moment, a plan should be put in place to train him up, although he was extremely insulting towards Vince, who I think does mean well.

As awful as Lily is, I feel very sorry for her in all of this: she's actually gone out and done the degree/training, worked in the same field, and is, excepting her sex, the obvious choice. It would be quite funny if she got the job Freddie applied for...although she is also still too junior for it.

Oh but you’re so right and the twins running rival stately homes would be so funny/a good move. (One by birth and one by worth.) Hope she applied and got an interview.

I don’t think the liquor licence thing could have gone on that long because he was working in the Orangery for what felt like years and years before he got the meat job.

I reckon they should attach a unicorn horn to Cleo's head, dress her up in pink furs, and include her in the wedding. 🦄🐕

It's just as daft an idea as any that they've had so far... 😂

Also, I think Freddie is sounding increasingly manic like Tigger every time we hear him.

His exuberant enthusiasm about the tractor idea was off the scale IMO.

He and Rosie are going to have to act pretty sharpish if it's going to happen 😲

IIRC, Elizabeth couldn't involve Freddie with the estate in the immediate aftermath of the prison sentence: he actually had to move out/not be involved at all, because LL would have lost its liquor licence otherwise.

That is true, but people I know on landed estates have been involved in some way from a young age, even if it's only listening into meetings or going around the estate because of lack of childcare. I learnt a lot by having to be a passenger in Dad's landrover, because Mum was busy with something or other, and we were too young to be left alone. But they seem to have had Freddie actively not involved with anything ever, despite knowing from his birth he'd be next in line.

I hope so!

I'll have to listen again this afternoon to make sure! 😂

I think his conviction for drug-dealing would have made it difficult if not impossible for him to go to Sandhurst; the army is not all that keen on drugs among the officers. Quite apart from that, I don't think he is even remotely suited to a job which involves being prepared to kill people: he wouldn't have made it through his term there even if they had accepted him.

And about that "you can't live in your home or they will lose their alcohol licence": I don't think that is at all a likely condition, for two reasons: his criminal offence had absolutely nothing to do with alcohol, and I think that getting a place for him in a bail hostel would have been difficult given that he did have a perfectly good home to live in, so would they really have made that home somewhere he was effectively forbidden to be? I mean, it was jolly good Archer-stylee melodrama and a chance to bring Nigel's horrible sister in for a cameo appearance, but really, no.

Aunt Camilla wasn't it? I can't remember the actor. There's an Uncle Piers, I think. Any cousins? Was Camilla older than my darling Nigel?