Archers thread #186: Eavesdropping on a home for the terminally confused. Discuss The Archers here.

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But Susan and Neil and Emma have brought up children and, as have Brian, Kate, etc so even if her actual parents know no different those other people who have had experience of a range of normal children would have noticed something surely.

I find it hard to understand how a child can get to secondary age without someone noticing a problem. I can see how the child might have some issues but a specific diagnosis may take some time, but I really don't believe that a child could be totally normal until secondary school age then suddenly get that diagnosis.

There's been no mention, however small, that Martha has any developmental or behavioural issues. If the SW were going down this route then they would have dropped the odd thing into conversations between Chris and Alice, or family members. Or rather, that's what past SW would do, these days they're quite happy to throw in a random story with no basis which bears no relation to what's been happening previously.

I thought there had been quite a lot of people commenting how bright she is

You'd be surprised. There are plenty of children who have minor issues which become more apparent and take until early secondary school to diagnose.

At 4, a lot of "mild" behavioural and developmental issues can be put down to "being 4".

If no one has noticed any obvious difference by 8-9 then I'd assume the storyline isn't a goer. But it's not unrealistic to have no concerns at 4 and a diagnosis at 12.

It also depends on the issue and how much the child can mask it

well Friday will be interesting. Alice’s reaction must be due to the fact that she has always felt bad for drinking during pregnancy and the potential impact

it seems clear from her conversation with Joy that she isn’t thinking about getting back with chris

This would be the one.

I found it hard to believe a couple of things; that school hadn't announced their intention to do some school-ready check, or that Martha has some delays that Chris isn't aware of.

Bloody hell, I've read articles about the school unreadiness issues in the UK and I'm in Australia!! UK, not Australian press, of course.

I like Joy but the conversation with Alice was odd. It was there to remind us (as if we had forgotten) about Alice’s drinking history in preparation for a FAS diagnosis for Martha. Frankly it would be astonishing if Martha had escaped unscathed considering Alice drank before she even knew she was pregnant and continued to do so afterwards. I think it would be a worthy PSA, but the question is will the SWs be able to stick with the story as Martha grows older or will she have to be shipped off to join Bethany.

The busy but silent shop was in stark contrast to the playground full of noisy children (none of whom belonged to the people in the scene).

That's not really unrealistic, especially with there being so few little ones in Ambrige to compare Martha to.

The nearest are the Starry Twins but Alice and Gnasher aren't close. Then there's Zander and Rosie. Zander is 6? Can't remember how old Rosie is. GiddyJack is 9.

Ian and Adam might have noticed if Martha were slower than Zander but I don't think they would say anything.

It seems odd to have introduced both Joy reminding Alice and the listeners about Drunk Alice and the nursery making such heavy weather about "being school ready". [Doesn't that mean, the odd accident aside, that a child is fully toilet trained and capable of going to the lavatory on their own?]

I suppose other than Susan the nursery staff are the only people who will spend a lot of time with Martha, so I agree it's credible.

But Susan and Neil and Emma have brought up children and, as have Brian, Kate, etc so even if her actual parents know no different those other people who have had experience of a range of normal children would have noticed something surely.

Not really. All of those people are decades away of when they were the parents of a 4 year old, and Kate was hardly a hands on parent.

Emma is the most likely to notice if there were something not right- the rest, I doubt it. And even if she had noticed, would she mention it?

Well yes, but that gets said about every child.

Yes but it was non family members and it felt almost pointed - like the sw were pushing the point she has no developmental issues

I’m hoping the storyline will be Alice worrying about Martha having FAS vs her actually having it, we’ve had enough depressing storylines recently.

Chris just can't let go of Alice. Mithering her about coming over to share a curry, wanting to spend more time as a family.

I wish Paul would move on from the vet's surgery and be replaced by a female vet nurse for Chris to fall in love with. Kill two birds with one stone; get rid of Paul and stop Chris pestering his ex.

I don't remember this being said but it's still a generic thing to say.

Will the shop at the charging place have rational opening hours? If not 24 hour, then at least 7-11? So that people going to and from work and school and sports training will be able to call in?

If so, bye bye village shop, you deserved to die. And muted hooray for Clarrie getting a job - I'm still annoyed at her not living in comfort on her pension.

Chris seemed to consider the words curry and biryani were interchangeable. He used both about three times each in the final conversation with Alice. Indian food is not my area of expertise but I thought they were different things- biriyani is basically rice-based with meat/veg added, whereas curry is a protein in a sauce (deliberately loose definitions used here). Can anyone else comment?

Martha must be at very high risk of developing FAS.
But I am pretty sure that there would already be signs - physical differences in FAS children are visible at birth, and developmental delays manifest in infancy so I do not see how the script writers can insert an FAS story line now.
If we just have Alice worrying about it, but no actual damage, what kind of public service message does that send out?
And surely Alice, Chris and the entire extended family would have been worried about this since before Martha was born

Oh gosh yes, similar to Farage’s man down the country pub costume. Although he looks like a sinister frog disguised as a human being.

if Emma had noticed anything about Martha, I think she’d have mentioned it to Susan.

As an Early Years teacher I have to agree. Parents can be very blind to any developmental delay especially if there are no other young children in the family.

The sw decided that Neil was a foundling after decades so them deciding Martha has FAS now would not be surprising

i actually think it would be a really good SL to have a character grow up with these issues and see them (hopefully) happy in adulthood

im just hoping it’s not an adhd diagnosis as that would be unrealistically early

other than Brad and his ASD baiting there have been no issues

It can be hard as a parent as you don’t have anyone to compare your kids to. My dd was diagnosed in secondary with adjs and it was obvious once pointed out but before that we just thought she was particularly boisterous and struggled academically

I can understand that but it can be quite frustrating to have parents reject any suggestion that their child could access help early on and then have them demanding to know why nothing has been done later on when it is then clear to them they their child is not keeping up. I'm not talking about boisterousness or things that can be age appropriate. The only child I knew with FAS had been adopted by the family who fostered him from birth and knew all about it.

Bloomin eck! I just listened to last nights episode. Thought we were getting the message across re hearing more from the long standing characters ,but here we are again, Joy in the shop, Joy counselling Alice. Please please give it a rest.

A biriyani is something one would find at an Indian restaurant when ‘going for a curry’ and it is therefore entirely plausible that for Chris it would naturally be included in the umbrella definition ‘curry’. Not his specialist subject, after all.

See attached article about the issue of spotting FASD