Archers thread #178: Ambridge or Scambridge? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you fancy Mucky Mick, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

The scars from Scambridge week will take some healing. Most of us felt we were the ones scammed - where was The Archers we know and (very occasionally) love?

Anyway, onwards and - almost certainly not - upwards. Will it be the best Christmas ever in Ambridge? Do we still care? Over to you!

Enjoy parkrun!! Thanks for new thread

Thanks for the thread, I'm a week behind listening so will catch up!

Thanks for new thread.

Thanks, as always, Gaspode. Enjoy the park run!

I won't reveal that I fancy Mucky Mick 🤢, but my unpopular opinion is that I miss Shula. Surely the church planting in Sunderland is mature enough that she could leave it to the locals now and come back to The Stables (yes, I know the actor has retired, I still miss the character).

I also miss a load of other characters. But Shula is quite near the top of my list.

Speaking of Christians, I hadn't realised before this week that Lynda was a frequent church goer. Is that a new thing or has she long been a parish stalwart? I did know she was sometimes seen at St Stephen's, but I hadn't thought it was on a regular basis.

I imagined the average Sunday congregation to be Peggy, Jill, Neil, and Harrison. So with one of them in The Laurels (and possibly still having a hissy fit over the stained glass window), one working shifts, and one who lives a drive away but doesn't drive (afaik), I thought Alan might sometimes be preaching to the pigeons.

Checking in. I don't blame Natasha for wanting to upsize to Beechwood though I wonder if she's fully thought through the implications of living next to Joy and Mick (free babysitting aside). It feels inevitable that Helen will be miffed by Natasha and Tom snagging the house for a bargain price and that Tom will then be miffed by Helen being offered the farmhouse as the newly loved-up Pat and Tony immediately decide to build their passive house as their latest adventure. I like the idea of Kirsty buying Willow Farm - she will be replacing Shula as the resident bleeding heart (her encounter with Gavin reminded me of St Smugula and HWMNBN!). I'm increasingly thinking that Shula's relocation and Jenny's death for that matter are preferable to keeping on characters until they no longer sound like themselves (and am slightly fearful this may happen to Neil having discovered the actor is so much older than the character he is playing).

I thought the Kirsty and Gavin scenes were really good, Lynda’s too. I feel like Gavin and Kirsty will eventually end up together after he’s gone off and made his name setting up a charity to benefit victims of slavery.

You can’t mix up Kirsty and Helen’s voices! Both so distinctive. Kirsty sounds like she’s got a sleepy injured fox cub on her that she doesn’t want to wake and Helen sounds like an extremely patronising but fragile nursery school teacher.

I’ll say it again that Helen has been a real montbeliarde to pretend to Joy and probably others that she can’t afford Beechwood, rather than that she didn’t bother offering on it.

Hope Natasha and Tom move there and try to outshine everyone else on the estate. Does anyone remember if Natasha grew up on a farm or what her parents did?

Thanks for the new thread!

I share @LillianGish 's concerns that characters should not be allowed to go on when the actors are no longer really up to the job, even when they have been excellent for many years. I appreciate that this would be a sensitive issue for the producers if the actor wants to go on forever, but ultimately I think the listeners' experience and the believability of TA have to take precedence.

You can’t mix up Kirsty and Helen’s voices! Both so distinctive. Kirsty sounds like she’s got a sleepy injured fox cub on her that she doesn’t want to wake and Helen sounds like an extremely patronising but fragile nursery school teacher.

Perfection!

Although I’d got Helen as a frustrated Deputy Head not nearly as capable as she believes herself, and prone to weekend meltdowns over parent feedback.

Thanks for new thread. I think it’s a red herring that any damage would have occurred to the Beechwood house while Helen lived there. Unless we are talking actual damage eg broken windows. The landlord remains liable for wear and tear so it’s Kirsty’s responsibility and only right that the cost of remediation should be taken into account when negotiating the process, even when the tenant is the one thinking of buying.

What really had me shouting at the radio, albeit uselessly, was Hellin's smugly patronising declaration to Joy that living with her parents would be so claustrophobic because they had the temerity to be worried about her. The monumental cheek of the woman - she’s spent her entire life winding her parents round her little finger (including enthusiastically lying to them, let's not forget, when starting her illicit affair with the married Knob) while declaring herself to be 'doggedly independent'. I just cannot stand her.

Did she say she was a churchgoer or was she agonising about what she and Robert should do 'as Christians'? I thought she said the latter, but my memory is fallible, as so often demonstrated on these threads.

I'm another one who doesn't believe Helen's claim that the Beechwood house needs £20,000 of work done on it. According to Joy the Beechwood houses are particularly well built.

Does anyone actually like Helen? I mean as a listener, not as an Ambridge resident (I know she in inexplicably friends with lovely Kirsty and kindly Ian).

I remember her being annoying as a teen, petty and vindictive to Hailey after John's death, whiny and annoying to her parents, a lying cheat to her mother whiler shagging a married man, faintly redeemed by the coercive control plot line and a reverting to sanctimonious cowbag to most people. And dumped Lee for no discernable reason (not that he was a loss to Ambridge).

To me the coercive control al was partly showing that bad things can also happen to horrible people

never understood how Kirsty puts up with her tbh

Agree x2

she’s a very standard level patronising PITA but that’s a world away from the cruel criminality of someone like Rob

• her appalling behaviour to Annette, Greg’s daughter. ‘We’ll all live together and you can have the baby and we’ll be one big happy family’.

Helen is a fantastic character - everything that has happened to her over the years has gone into making the person she has become. The death of her brother (which has shaped the dynamic of the entire family), her anorexia, her disastrous relationships which have left her doubting her own judgement (not ideal for a control freak), the way her family pussyfoot around her. Her behaviour over Beechwood is classic Helen - it’s not quite perfect enough for her (even though it is actually her boys’ home), she can’t quite commit to it though she doesn’t know where she’d rather live. Everything has to be on her terms even though she doesn’t know what she wants. She is consistently infuriating - we know how she’ll behave in any given situation. Added to which she has an instantly recognisable voice. I love her. The drama just flows from her character it doesn’t have to be engineered by events.

Thanks, as always, for the new thread @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g.

I thoroughly dislike Helen for all the reasons @CountingCrones and others have already detailed, I do however think she's brilliantly acted. I'm never sure how the scripties feel about her though, do they realise just how awful she is?

I love Joy, Mucky Mick not so much.

I hate her but she is a fabulous character both acted and written

as opposed to pip who I hate and is poorly acted and written

Though I wonder if she's fully thought through the implications of living next to Joy and Mick (free babysitting aside).

Mick and Joy would be excellent neighbours.
They won't be noisy. Joy was mortified when Helen complained about the hot tub.

Joy in particular is very civic minded. Joy's house and garden will be neat and tidy.
They will , without complaint, take in deliveries for Gnasher and Tom Tit. They will keep an eye on the house when G & TT are on holiday.

Oh and baby- sitting of course.

Yes babysitting until they find out Joy drowned Rochelle in the bath…

I get the impression from MN that some people would rather have a deeply annoying, manipulative 'friend' than no friends at all. Also, Kirsty is someone who likes to have a cause. Helen is so flawed and vulnerable that all Kirsty's protective instincts come out and she puts up with all sorts of nonsense from her.

Oh, I agree, Lillian, she’s brilliantly, compellingly drawn. It’s a testament to the success of the creation that I feel so repelled by her!

Pip is the perfect comparison - she has no discernible character traits. Her storylines seem to be built around trying random hats on her - single mother, WFL. No one cares because it just feels like stuff happens to her and then more stuff happens - you can’t predict how she’ll react in any situation, she just comes in and reads the lines.