Archers thread #178: Ambridge or Scambridge? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you fancy Mucky Mick, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

The scars from Scambridge week will take some healing. Most of us felt we were the ones scammed - where was The Archers we know and (very occasionally) love?

Anyway, onwards and - almost certainly not - upwards. Will it be the best Christmas ever in Ambridge? Do we still care? Over to you!

Oooooh I hope we hear Brenda!!!

Thank you @Trivium4all for the recipe - so good I saw it twice!

Trying to work out if I want to eat this because it sounds delicious, or whether because you mentioned putting an egg on it.

Ooh Brenda!

I don’t remember her apparently going to be some oligarch’s mistress - possibly I was young and innocent at the time but I thought she got heartily sick of Tom and all his ways and realised he wasn’t worth waiting for and went off and got a job in property?

And again grrr Helen

Brenda went off with the oligarch in Ambridge Extra rather than real TA.

Omg I had no idea! Apparently he was also the voice of Rodey the Mouse in Through the Dragons Eye 🐉
Thank you for this excellent trivia

Oh I think we’ll definitely be hearing Brenda. Does anyone know what the (former) actress has been doing in the interim which might inform us oldies whether we have to start mentally preparing for NuBrenda?

yes Brenda and Roy were anachronistic names, but it happens sometimes in RL. I know some 12 year old twins with names straight out of my class register in 1979, never used nowadays (or so I thought!).

Not only are NuRobert’s scripts wrong, he lacks the warm, woolly cardigan tones of OldRobert. His voice is very harsh I find

His voice is a little harsh (or just... different, I suppose), but I think it could be softened with a different delivery. NuRobert's delivery (and therefore, overall personality) seems quite aggressive vs OldRobert.

Consumption was just a joke 😊

Her behaviour over Beechwood is classic Helen - it’s not quite perfect enough for her (even though it is actually her boys’ home), she can’t quite commit to it though she doesn’t know where she’d rather live

Rather like her relationship with Lee. He made her and her children happy but wasn't quite perfect enough so she dumped him even though the boys loved him.

Spot on!

I also agree that Roy and Brenda were very odd names indeed to give to children born in the late 70s/early 80s. Particularly strange as mostly I think the production team have made sensible, plausible choices of names, sticking either to timeless, classless names that are still common (e.g. William, Edward, Alice) or names that are very popular (e.g. Keira, Poppy, Mia, Jake). Kate choosing Phoebe for her baby daughter at a naming ceremony on Lakey Hill was a particular highlight.

when I got married, the only alternatives were church and registry office. You got married in Registry Office only if you couldn’t get married in church (one of you was divorced) or you were bravely and openly atheist. So C of E was the default for people of all sorts of level of belief.

True, but there were also Methodist, Baptist and other nonconformist churches who would marry people who couldn't get married in the local Anglican church. My FIL had a short-lived marriage during the war that ended in divorce so when he and my MIL got married the C of E was not an option, even though my MIL was a regular worshipper there. So they married in a Methodist church. I think it may have been the case that a Registrar had to attend to do the official bit, which was not necessary in a C of E church.

And now Tom is going exactly by the Bridge Farm Archers playbook - don't do anything to upset Helen. She might not want to buy the house, but she still wants to live in it so we shouldn't buy it either - even though we could get it for a good price and if we don't buy it that other couple will buy it and she'll have to move out anyway and whatever you do don't discuss any of this with her because she's too fragile and we don't want to tip her over the edge. If this were any other family it would feel contrived, but this is how it always goes and it's part of the reason why Helen is the way she is.
I'm happy for Brenda to come back, but only if she stays for a bit and contributes to the SLs and is not another rootless and pointless blow in. This is my feeling and I don't mind if she is played by a different actor because if she's been living in a Mayfair flat with a Russian oligarch for all these years she's hardly likely to be the same person she was when she left anyway. I loved the way Natasha's ears immediately pricked up at the suggestion she was loaded. It's an interesting move to bring her back because there was a conscious decision to write out the Tuckers when Moike and Vicky moved to Brum with Bethany and Brenda was sidelined onto Ambridge Extra. With Roy's departure (RIP Ian Pepperel) that seemed to be that, however I can see that with the disappearance of so many Archers stalwarts (I don't even want to think about the departure of Brian) gathering together characters with Ambridge roots who may have some longevity is probably top of the SWs 'to do' list.

I know one Brenda and she’s about 90.

Disagree that William, Edward, Alice are timeless - I don’t think you’ll find many Williams, Edwards and Alices in their 60s and 70s. They’ve since had a resurgence.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g - didn’t know about that! My DFs family are Methodist, but no-one suggested it as an option. Probably a good idea as determinedly atheist DH wouldn’t have liked the idea. Besides, they don’t have bells.

I'm copying the kale stew recipe from the other thread, in case doesn't see it there, or anyone else wants it. N Portugal has a very similar stew, with couve gallego (kale), and umpteen kinds of sausage and pork belly. It increasingly seems to me that across Europe, the same dishes re-occur, but taste different because of the local herbs and vegetables (eg stuffed cabbage leaves cf stuffed vine leaves).

My lovely maternal GM was a Catholic. When she married my GF , who was not, they could not get married in a Catholic church because he was not a Catholic, even though he was happy for the children to be brought up as Catholics. As a result they had to marry in a registry office, which was not considered to be a real marriage by the RC church. My DM often talks about how, in the 1930, "the nuns" regularly turned up at their house when my GF was at work to berate her mother for "living in sin" and to tell her that her 3 children were bastards and they would all go to Hell. Not surprisingly my DGM found this very upsetting.

When my DM, who was brought up Catholic, married my DF, whose family were staunch Methodists and pretty much regarded the Catholic church as "the whore of Babylon", they decided to split the difference and get married in a C of E church. From then on, they were both practising C of E, which is how I was brought up.

When I was about 10 a new vicar persuaded my DM that she needed to formalise her position and we had a splendid service for the whole congregation in which she renounced the Pope and all his works and was formally accepted into the C of E. The odd thing about this was that our church was about as High Anglican as you could get - sung Eucharist with incense and lots of genuflecting and bell ringing and confession. My mother always said the only difference was the absence of Latin (and of course even that changed for Catholics).

Disagree that William, Edward, Alice are timeless - I don’t think you’ll find many Williams, Edwards and Alices in their 60s and 70s. They’ve since had a resurgence.

I do like a challenge. A quick Google had led me to this lovely feature on the ONS website where you can see a graph showing a name's popularity since 1904 in England and Wales.

William - never out of the top 50 boys' names
Edward - never out of the top 60 boys' names
Alice - OK, you can have that one. Fell out of the top 100 for about 50 years between 1935 and 1985 and since then has been consistently one of the top 50 girls' names.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/articles/babynamessince1904howhasyoursperformed/2016-09-02

And when my parents married in a C of E 1946 some RC friends (my father had been brought up Catholic but lapsed) couldn’t attend the wedding. They were only allowed to come as far as the lych gate to the church, apparently, because their own church wouldn’t allow them to enter a C of E building.

I note from that article that it says Judy Bennett played Shula ‘until earlier this year’. Does that mean she’s officially retired? I must have missed that.

Yes, sadly she has. I miss that sanctimonious presence.

Re religion, it can work the other way too. This is from the Wikipedia article about Lord Mackay, who was the Lord Chancellor under John Major.

Mackay was raised a member of the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland; as an adult he was an elder of the church.[1] The church forbids its members to attend Catholic religious services; nevertheless Mackay attended two Catholic funeral masses for members of the judiciary (for Charles Ritchie Russell in 1986,[4] and again for John Wheatley in 1988).[1] Following the second mass Mackay was called before a church synod where he denied that he had broken the church's prohibition of showing "support for the doctrine of Catholicism", saying "I went there purely with the purpose of paying my respects to my dead colleagues."[7] The church suspended Mackay from the eldership and from membership.[1] The synod met again in Glasgow in 1989 to review the decision; the meeting asked Mackay to undertake not to attend further Catholic services, but he announced "I have no intention of giving any such undertaking as that for which the synod has asked",[8] and later withdrew from the church. The dispute precipitated a schism, leading to the formation of the Associated Presbyterian Churches. Mackay did not join the new communion, but as of 1993 worshipped with their Inverness congregation.

A religious schism over a kind and decent act of respect to a colleague! I have no religious belief but I often wonder what the biblical Jesus would make of all this nonsense. It seems a very long way from the simple love thy neighbour, turn the other cheek messages of the Gospels. Trying desperately to get back to The Archers, Alan could preach on this one day, perhaps.

Yes religious intolerance works all ways. My absolutely lovely paternal DGF, who was a Methodist lay preacher, apparently felt he would not have been able to attend my parents' wedding if it had been in a Catholic church. Despite the fact that he adored my DM and got on brilliantly with all her (Catholic) family.

Back to TA, I never listened to TA Extra and keep hearing about events (like Brenda's relationship with a Russian oligarch) that I missed out on as a result. How long was it broadcast for? Am I right in thinking it was another (unwise and unsuccessful) attempt to attract a younger audience? (It's like gardening and family history and pension planning - young people should really have better things to do with their lives. Then they can embrace all these lovely , life enhancing activities when they get older )

I gave up listening to TA during COVID as well as I couldn't stand the monologues, but I don't seem to have missed anything there.

JanFebAndOnwards
Oh I think we’ll definitely be hearing Brenda. Does anyone know what the (former) actress has been doing in the interim which might inform us oldies whether we have to start mentally preparing for NuBrenda?

I have a feeling Amy Shindler has been working as a writer for television; she had her own series at one point, I think.

We may not actually hear Brenda, though; these days not being or being in the cast list doesn't seem to be helpful as a guide, because Gavin wasn't but still appeared on air.

Brenda came back to Ambridge most recently to speak in a single episode, 13th March, 2014, in which she announced her engagement – not to a Russian oligarch (she gave him the push in AmEx) but to a chap called Adrian who lived in Wapping and had his own software company.

Godesstobe
Back to TA, I never listened to TA Extra and keep hearing about events (like Brenda's relationship with a Russian oligarch) that I missed out on as a result. How long was it broadcast for?

Wiki says
The first series of Ambridge Extra ran for 13 weeks (26 episodes) from April through to June 2011. A second 13-week series began airing from 4 October 2011 at 2.15pm on Tuesdays and Thursdays. It was produced by Sara Conkey and Rosie Boulton. Ambridge Extra was recommissioned for a third series, which began airing from 3 July 2012. A fourth series was broadcast from 4 December 2012. When the fifth series of Ambridge Extra began on 2 July 2013, there was much criticism over key scenes appearing in the show rather than The Archers.
On 30 January 2014, it was confirmed that Ambridge Extra would not be returning for a sixth series and was going to be "rested".

You’re completely gliding over the fact that both were nearly in the top 10 until the 50s when they dived in popularity and recovered only recently. Remember “top 5” doesnt necessarily mean common - if you took 100 men/women at random, the 50th name probably would not appear among them

Both my names deservedly disappeared into oblivion shortly after I was born.

Sadly I don’t think it can be fixed. OldRobert had a lighter timbre to his voice, clear and jovial. He had quite a youthful voice. NuRobert is gravelly and a bit woolly sounding.

Does anyone else think there is a tiny part of Tom that is not keen buying the Beechwood house because it is buying from Kirsty, who he jilted?
Before the were getting married they ended up committing to buying a much bigger than needed new build because Kirsty wanted to. So when he jilted her Kirsty lost the big posh new build house too.
So for Tom to try and buy the big posh new build from Kirsty so he can live in it with his happy family and kids... Surely even Tom - the most self centred person ever - could realise that would be more than a bit off?
Or surely someone would clock that and raise an eyebrow, even if Kirsty is too much of a pushover?
I'm enjoying the storyline - I think it'll roll for a while and is linked to who ends up in the Bridge Farm house.