Archers thread #172: Come on, Clive! Spill the beans and put us all out of our misery. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that Clive sounds deeply misunderstood, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Fete over, cricket season over - can the Flower and Produce show be far behind? I don't think I've heard a mention of it this year. Have I not been paying attention?

In any real village, preparations for the Christmas show would already be under way, but not in Ambridge, of course. I am probably in a minority of one in regretting this.

With any luck, though, by Christmas this incredibly protracted tale of Alice, George and the crash will be behind us at last. Do we think Clive's really gone? I don't believe it. We won't be rid of him that easily. Will he go to the police himself? Will he attempt to blackmail his family or extort money from the Aldridges in return for information that would secure Alice's acquittal? Do we care? I find I don't really, unfortunately. I did enjoy hearing Clive for those few brief exchanges but I've had enough now. Unrelieved nastiness is not really what I want from TA.

Over to you!

but it feels as if the SWs are reluctant to kill off any characters prematurely or write in any illness or declining health unless it happens off stage

This is a real problem I've pondered on and off for a while. There are a reasonable number of people close to the main characters who are very elderly. It's increasingly improbable that all of them are just ticking along fine, and equally unlikely that they would die and it not be a big deal. So are the SWs backing themselves into a corner where Peggy, Jill, Aunty Chris, Bert Horrobin et al all have to die in a short space of time? And then there are another, much bigger, generation below them who are already well into the danger zone (Jim, Justin, Lilian, Brian, Lynda, Robert ...). Please don't let it be something ridiculous that wipes them all out at once! But if not then there'll have to be either a) radio silence from the Archer family for a good long while during which the deaths of the matriarchs are mentioned in passing by other characters, or b) several deaths of formerly major characters. Neither solution is great.

@Bruisername if he loses his job I don’t think Fallon will be able to bear the sight of him

It sounds as though she's already struggling to cope with his idiocy. In real life, she would be realising how difficult it is to convince yourself that you "love" someone you don't even like any more. Harrison should be sent to the North Pole with instructions to count the penguins.

I remember when June Spencer retired she said something about having recorded her last episode, which people mostly took to mean the last one broadcast. But I'm still wondering if she recorded "Peggy's last bow", to be broadcast after her own death. She's only 105, and possibly going for the world record (currently 118), so we may have to wait a while. I very much hope so.

interesting thought
in that case my previous thought (bad winter flu sweeps ambridge and carries off the oldest cohort, who had neglected to get their jabs) wouldn't work

Frankly, they missed a trick with Covid.

Have there been examples of characters being killed off before the actor has died (excluding dramatic deaths like Nigel and Grace)

John, Greg, Jenny, Rob …

Hope I don’t have any of those wrong?

And Paul! Can’t recall if on main show or AmEx.

Gonners
Harrison should be sent to the North Pole with instructions to count the penguins.

He should indeed, and maybe he'll be eaten by a polar bear while he looks for them in vain.

Betty Tucker, although I believe the actor wanted out.

john, Greg and Rob fall into the ‘for the sake of drama’ bucket

How could I have forgotten Betty!?

Jennifer. Angela Piper is still alive; she decided to retire.

Alistair - how has he forgotten it's not his house? Unrealistic surely from someone his age?

If there haven't, there certainly ought to be and I could make a few suggestions! Nic and wossname - Greg - spring to mind - though I suppose they were "dramatic" deaths and I just didn't much care. And JennyDarling, of course. Hers was "dramatic" but also natural causes, i.e. no accidents, guns or tractors were involved and it was just a case of the actress wanting to retire.

It sounds like Jenny and Betty were for retirement then

All the deaths of characters I can think of in recent years have either been after the actor has died or in the course of some very dramatic storyline, except for Jennifer and Betty as mentioned above.

After actor has died: Joe Grundy, Phil Archer, Julia Pargetter

Dramatic purposes: Nigel Pargetter, Nic Grundy, John Archer (although his actor wanted out), Rob

Can't remember with Jack Woolley. The character had dementia for a long time so I assume eventually he just didn't speak any more. Was this before or after his actor died?

Roy's case is unusual because sadly we know that Ian Pepperell has died and it looks as if the character has therefore been written out, but will live on for many years in Bulgaria. By contrast, they re-cast Robert after Graham Blockey died.

I keep thinking Matt Crawford has died but I don't think he has, has he? Kim Durham had some sort of falling out with a previous Editor, IIRC, but if Matt is still alive there's no reason why he shouldn't come back. I'd like that. Would put Justin's nose right out of joint.

Forgot about Bert Fry. I knew there must be at least one other elderly character who'd died. Again, can't remember who died first - actor or character. Freda Fry was killed off for dramatic purposes in the flood, but had hardly ever spoken, so doesn't really count.

So Denise is going to remain living with John and just pop round to sit in the front room with Alistair and enjoy the feature wall. I think Jim should ask Alistair to leave. His behaviour is embarrassing and childish. It’s difficult to believe he is in his 60s and holds down a professional job.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g
Can't remember with Jack Woolley. The character had dementia for a long time so I assume eventually he just didn't speak any more. Was this before or after his actor died?

Arnold Peters, who played Jack, also had Alzheimer's disease, diagnosed not long after Jack Woolley's was. He died on 11th May, 2013, and Jack died during the night of 1st-2nd January, 2014. Jack Woolley last spoke on air on his birthday, 19th July, in 2011.

Goodness Brad sounded even drearier tonight.

I don’t get why he’s being so dreary, it’s boring!

Why was he there?

Why did Robert act like it was his house. I wouldnt do it Alistair move stuff about and move Denise in, I moved in with my boyfriend (now DH) and his mum it was a nightmare and I was walking on eggshells most of the time, but Im quite easy going and we a lived together for 15 years. As I say it wasnt easy at all but because they co owned the house he couldnt afford to buy a place for us both even on my wage. Get your own place Alistair it will put such a strain on all of you.

I was also puzzled why Brad was hanging out with those two.

I think to indicate to us that he’s not happy. Hence the dreariness. No doubt there will be a long and educative story arc about navigating the university experience (and possibly the healing effects of litter-picking). So that’s something to look forward to.