Archers thread #172: Come on, Clive! Spill the beans and put us all out of our misery. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that Clive sounds deeply misunderstood, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Fete over, cricket season over - can the Flower and Produce show be far behind? I don't think I've heard a mention of it this year. Have I not been paying attention?

In any real village, preparations for the Christmas show would already be under way, but not in Ambridge, of course. I am probably in a minority of one in regretting this.

With any luck, though, by Christmas this incredibly protracted tale of Alice, George and the crash will be behind us at last. Do we think Clive's really gone? I don't believe it. We won't be rid of him that easily. Will he go to the police himself? Will he attempt to blackmail his family or extort money from the Aldridges in return for information that would secure Alice's acquittal? Do we care? I find I don't really, unfortunately. I did enjoy hearing Clive for those few brief exchanges but I've had enough now. Unrelieved nastiness is not really what I want from TA.

Over to you!

I think he was in shock after just hearing about Alice (and having worried for ages about the impugn his daughter, setting aside his own feelings for Alice), heading to his parents to celebrate, and then finding out his nephew caused it and his sister hid the truth. Think he was fairly mild to be honest in these particular circumstances. Chris is not known for flying off the handle as a general rule.

You probably aren’t, unfortunately. But then I don’t see the uncle/nephew relationship as close or important

• the further worrying about her mum going away again can only have been fuelled by her parents

Precisely!

Uncle/nephew isn’t necessarily close but they have recently drawn it that the family are - George looked after Martha for eg, Chris helping Emma beef up

edited to add Chris also expects a close relationship between Martha and her aunt

he was particularly vicious about George I thought

yes poor carlotta - unemployed so soon after having left her old job with seemingly no notice

Alice's relief is so immense and all-encompassing she can afford to be calm and reasonable about it - knowing she won't be going to prison is literally the only thing that matters to her. Even knowing the truth of the accident, she still appears to have no recollection of what happened so presumably a large part of her relief is that although she now knows she wasn't to blame she realises she easily might have been. Chris is coming at this from a slightly different angle - I'm now not so sure that the revelation will bring him and Alice back together, it sounded to me as she was trying to calmly entangle herself from his over-exuberant embrace. He (quite reasonably imo) feels let down by his whole family - George for framing Alice, Emma for covering it up and no doubt his mum and dad for not immediately informing him the moment they knew George had been arrested. He needs to remember this is not about him. I wonder if he will be the one to break the news to Harrison?

Yes I agree that Chris will have his heart broken

I don't think he can have been insured, as he doesn't have his own car so far as we know.

But then I don’t see the uncle/nephew relationship as close or important

Contrary to a great deal of historical and folkloric precedent, where a man's key next-generation relationship was with his sister's son, the male most guaranteed to be from his own genetic lineage. Because as the Grundy brothers could tell you, you can never be sure with your own sons.

I didn't like the way Chris spoke about another human being, even one he had good reason to be angry with, and agree that the fact that he was speaking to his sister about a nephew he has known since infancy made it worse.

but it’s not just ‘my nephew, who has been an idiot’. This is ‘my nephew, who has put my ex-wife who I still really love and want to get back with through great distress and anxiety, lied repeatedly, and committed a criminal offence’. Chris has gone from elation about Alice’s news to the awful discovery that a member of his own family was responsible. He is in shock and lashing out at anyone in reach.

The focus so far seems to have been on Alice/Marthurr and what it’s done to them. Nobody has mentioned the fact that George also nearly killed Fallon, Joy and Mick - not to mention Harrison’s spawn. Alice was getting tremendous flack for the potentially serious consequences of what she was supposed to have done. That’s got to be the next stage, surely, as news spreads around Ambridge. Although the principal spreader-of-news will be uncharacteristically quiet, one would think!

It was probably not a harsh way to think about a nephew, but a harsh way to talk about the offspring of sister you are fond of.

Let's not forget that Chris and Emma are not close enough for him to be invited/ come to her recent celebration of GCSE results, though her ex-husband/ husband's brother was there.

Close enough to expect irregular childcare when the shit hit the fan

As a quick glance at AIBU most days will demonstrate, one doesn't have to be close to one's family to expect free childcare on tap. 😂

I thought calling George a pathetic waste of space was quite restrained under the circumstances. Emma's very weak defence and minimising was infurirating.

Hmmm, well if George hears even half the nastiness that was thrown at him in that conversation plus what he’s going to hear from others plus the fact he’s already shown he feels like he is a waste of space (in conversation with Will and Mia) - then the SL could take a darker turn

Could Alice’s car maybe have been insured for any driver? Though I guess it would only be with Alice’s consent.

when Alice was drinking didn’t she do things that effectively ‘framed’ other people? Perhaps not on criminal matters**
*
Yes didn't Alice frame Ed for a mix up with something like grain storage that was actually her fault. Before she made out that he fancied her.

I feel a bit sorry for Ed here. He will get tarnished and knew nothing.

Oh formatting fail and I can't edit on the app!

I like the theory suggested by others that the one person who will not hold lasting anger towards George is Alice. I felt they were already going that way when her conversation with Susan was so calm. Alice, more than anyone, can understand why George did what he did.

Alcoholism isn't a choice, it's an illness

Perverting the course of justice is surely going to top any driving offences George might be charged with. If he’d only been honest from the start that’s all he would have been facing and his speedy actions in diving in to rescue Fallon would have been good mitigation. In fact I felt he only dived in so quickly at the time because it was Fallon in the car - I’m not sure he’d have been so quick off the mark to save Mick or Joy.

I’m not sure he’d have been so quick off the mark to save Mick or Joy.
An entirely reasonable stance.

Alcoholism isn't a choice, it's an illness

Having Martha was a choice, though, and a poor one.

given that it's not long since Neil was having a word with George about how he spoke to Hannah and other women, i think Chris was remarkably restrained - as has Neil been. Neil has known for ages that George was a budding wrong 'un but he hasn't really involved the rest of the family in trying to reign him in.

In Chris' shoes? i would have said the same thing. Just because he's a relative doesn't mean he has to think the sun shines out of his arse no matter what happens.

"yes poor carlotta - unemployed so soon after having left her old job with seemingly no notice"

The name Carlotta just reminds me of the Steve Martin film "Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid" where there are two lists titled "friends of Carlotta" and "enemies of Carlotta".

Justin is obviously on the friends list and Lillian on the enemies.

Sure but there’s a line between sun shining out of arse and what Chris said.

Having a relative who makes bad choices and behaves badly can be difficult but if you love them it is extra hard

The driving offences are largely irrelevant. They can't prove beyond reasonable doubt he was over the limit or that Alice didn't mumble consent to taking the car. That only leaves no insurance.