Archers thread #172: Come on, Clive! Spill the beans and put us all out of our misery. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that Clive sounds deeply misunderstood, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Fete over, cricket season over - can the Flower and Produce show be far behind? I don't think I've heard a mention of it this year. Have I not been paying attention?

In any real village, preparations for the Christmas show would already be under way, but not in Ambridge, of course. I am probably in a minority of one in regretting this.

With any luck, though, by Christmas this incredibly protracted tale of Alice, George and the crash will be behind us at last. Do we think Clive's really gone? I don't believe it. We won't be rid of him that easily. Will he go to the police himself? Will he attempt to blackmail his family or extort money from the Aldridges in return for information that would secure Alice's acquittal? Do we care? I find I don't really, unfortunately. I did enjoy hearing Clive for those few brief exchanges but I've had enough now. Unrelieved nastiness is not really what I want from TA.

Over to you!

Ahhh, no doubt it’ll be back to litter-picking soon but that was a great episode tonight. Proper drama.

I think forgiving a spur-of-the-moment poor choice (ie driving Alice’s car) is one thing. Forgiving a deliberately deceitful course of action over several weeks is another. I think Chris’s reaction was realistic (and it’s also revealing his true feelings for Alice, as if we didn’t already know).

Will Ed leap to Emmur’s defence? Will she continue to turn to Will for support? Will Clarrie find herself torn between her sons? Will Eddie make it a good excuse for a pint? And will the tension between Ed’n’Em lead to that long-awaited tree surgery accident (oh, please 😄).

Congratulations! Maybe Bore can give you some sort of 🔮 award.

Ha! I feel like I needed a pat on the back free a shitty day!!

you would think they would want to rip the plaster off rather than have it seep out

Phew what an episode!

I’m a bit hacked off with the ‘how bad this has been for sodding Marrthurrr’ leitmotif. If Marthurr is upset and worried that ‘Mummy might have to go away AGAIN’ it’s worth considering why Mummy went away the last time, which is what is (or I assume it to be being written as) making the wretched moppet twitchy about the prospect of separation. To rehab, wasn’t it, because Mummy is a piss-artist? Well, that’s not George’s fault, nor Emma’s. Alice has done a fairly good job of fucking up her daughter without external assistance.
Well, Chris helped a bit when he removed a bf infant from its mother and took it somewhere else to be formula fed. I don’t really care how babies are fed (so long as it’s not anywhere I can see or hear them) but that was a HUGE thing, and it was kind of glossed. OK, dear Martha getting a soupçon of Chateau Bas de Gamme on demand won’t have been ideal, but I thought Chris’s behaviour was appalling, and ignorant.
Still, I have high hopes that Susan, as her family disintegrates in slow motion, will rediscover her censorious mojo and decide that Alice is the root cause of all the trouble. Emma will arrive at the same moral position pdq, resentment redoubled and bile bubbling.. That will be fun.

While George obviously did a bad thing, Alice being drunk in her car was the catalyst. I’m surprised Susan is so forgiving of that element of it. It is, quite literally, a car crash.

I think if he had just driven thr car and crashed, where he was trying to hrlp (although also quite liking the chance to drive her car,) they might focus more on Alice, but deliberately trying to frame her by dragging her into the driving seat is really quite an inexcusable bad thing.

(Irrelevant repetition: I still want to know what make of car George was so keen to drive. 🤔😀)

I doubt we'll ever find out.

Seriously, though - it wouldn't fit the script if it were something as boring as a Ford Mondeo or even a VW Golf. But it's likely to be something Martha-inclusive.

If the SWs have even thought about it.

Oh I don’t disagree! But surprised there’s not a bit of ‘but Alice…’ about it.

George has probably mostly driven tractors, the Bridge Farm delivery van, and his parent's cars, which are probably quite old and unimpressive, functional and not far off an MOT failure. Alice's car is probably newer and a bit higher spec, even with a child seat. It probably doesn't need to be absolutely top of the range for it to be better than anything George has had the chance to drive.

I hereby bestow the Order of the Purple Prognosticator 2nd class (the 🔮says no one gets 1st class) to @Bruisername

LOL

George wouldn't have sold his soul for a Ford Focus.
Although he's denied access to a wider world, he's hardly unaware of it. There's no way he'd have risked everything to drive an ordinary car.

I can't imagine Alice driving a Ford Focus.

LOL. My point exactly!

It's sad that I'm so obsessed with this minor detail considering I don't GAF about cars.

Do we know if George was

(a) over the limit?
(b) insured?
(c) speeding?

I think Alice would be driving an automatic mini traveller, my dsil has one and im well jell.
So will Justin eat humble pie? I feel sorry for Carlotta she is going to be out of a job.
Emma cant think straight because of George, guilt because of his upbringing and unconditional love, she cannot help herself even though we all say she was wrong keeping it a secret I wonder what all us Mums in real life would have done.
Its all Martha Martha Martha as if she is the only child ever. She has been looked after by so many family members was never left lonely. I know she must have missed her mum but Alice has been in rehab twice now so Martha must be aware her mum isnt always around. To be honest Alice and Chris were lucky they had so many relations to be able to care for Martha.
Cant wait for Harrison's reaction to George and also to Alice.

The mention of Carlotta has reminded me of something I chuckled at a while back when Justin and Lilian were talking about Carlotta’s ability to promote the stables. Justin agreed she was quiet and Lilian said something like”she never says a word” which I thought was a very funny and knowing joke about silent characters!

In a similar vein two characters were chatting recently and one said “oh, nobody is listening” and the other said “somebody is ALWAYS listening” which was also very funny. Can’t remember who it was, maybe Susan and someone else?

I think there may be people down the line who don't want to welcome Alice back with open arms and who do recognise that her alcoholism was a root cause of at least some of what happened. But I think the Grundys and Carters will have the sense to realise that they're not in a position to be throwing stones. Maybe some of the Aldridges would be better placed to give the nuanced view. Although I'm sure their immediate reaction will just be to support Alice and want to go for George. Down the line they might reflect on the bigger picture.

Yes thats a good point about Alice having been in rehab - the further worrying about her mum going away again can only have been fuelled by her parents

the current living arrangements with Martha are due to the alcohol - yes this will take a weight of Alice’s mind and increase her confidence but if she makes a full recovery immediately I would be very disappointed!!

when Alice was drinking didn’t she do things that effectively ‘framed’ other people? Perhaps not on criminal matters

And am I the only one who thought the way Chris spoke about George was quite unforgivable for an Uncle

Neil and Susan had to wait to watch it all unfold, they had no real other option. Perhaps tonight it will come out that Emma made the phonecall.

Martha is passed around too much family due to Alice's alcoholism and rehab. I agree that even without the rehab, she's not exactly sure who her primary bonds should be with, aside from Chris. I predict in 2050 an attachment based storyline of Martha in her 20s with insecure relationships.

Chris was pretty cutting about George. I can't remember how much of the misogynistic stuff Chris knows about. Was he linking everything he knew about George, or commenting just on the crash? Either way it was pretty harsh, but if Chris has seen a pattern of behaviour over time, like we have, he has a point!

we do know that George is very good with Martha and she is a big fan of his

My thoughts. It wasn't a tractor or a clapped out van.