Archers thread #172: Come on, Clive! Spill the beans and put us all out of our misery. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that Clive sounds deeply misunderstood, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Fete over, cricket season over - can the Flower and Produce show be far behind? I don't think I've heard a mention of it this year. Have I not been paying attention?

In any real village, preparations for the Christmas show would already be under way, but not in Ambridge, of course. I am probably in a minority of one in regretting this.

With any luck, though, by Christmas this incredibly protracted tale of Alice, George and the crash will be behind us at last. Do we think Clive's really gone? I don't believe it. We won't be rid of him that easily. Will he go to the police himself? Will he attempt to blackmail his family or extort money from the Aldridges in return for information that would secure Alice's acquittal? Do we care? I find I don't really, unfortunately. I did enjoy hearing Clive for those few brief exchanges but I've had enough now. Unrelieved nastiness is not really what I want from TA.

Over to you!

Unlikely. Wouldn't that be phenomenally expensive?

Most fully comp insurance policies will include third-party only cover for driving other cars with the owner’s consent - disclaimer, check your own policy and don’t rely on this. I don’t think George has a car himself so he’s unlikely to have insurance. Alice’s own policy might also cover another driver with consent. It’s hard to see how Alice could have consented to it since she wasn’t even aware he’d been in the car.

He is more likely to be charged with the much more serious offence of perverting the course of justice, against which driving offences pale into insignificance. But it does raise an interesting point, we’ve heard very little about the damage to Mick’s car. Presumably after going in the water, it was a write-off and so he’d be claiming against Alice’s insurance.

we also haven’t heard if he, Joy or Fallon are pursuing a personal injury claim.

I don't think it's harsh. I may live in a different world from some of you though. I would not be using gentle words with anyone who had done what George has done. But then i used to be in the army and have grown up around soldiers.

I have seen nasty, entirely preventable, accidents and don't think a really explosive reaction by people even peripherally affected is over-reaction.

Relative or not.

Wouldn't they throw the book at George anyway, in case the more serious charge for some reason doesn't stick?
But this is TA so they'll keep it simple.

I think where I was coming from when asking about the insurance position is this: most responsible adults would not drive a car unless they were insured to do so. That is why people don’t go around randomly driving their mates’ cars for example (oh go on Dave, you have a pint and I’ll drive you home in your car type scenario).

Unless George had his own car and knew he was covered on any other car (he might have thought he could fudge the “owner’s consent “ bit) he knew full well that when he discovered Aunty Alice passed out in a layby that to drive her home would mean driving uninsured. Most people would have discounted that option immediately and called someone to come and get her. Or just left her to sober up.
George, on the other hand, deliberately drove a car knowing he was breaking the law from the second he got behind the wheel. To me, that goes directly to his character.

Agree. He just fancied a drive in a smart car and thought he’d be boasting about it afterwards - he even messaged Will to say what he was doing. He didn’t give a single thought to insurance.

Great acting from the Tuckers.

I mean Carters.🙈

Only a brother or other close member of the family is allowed to be so utterly honest about what he thinks of someone's useless son! And he'd unite with his sister if an outsider said the same, chances are.

The main person whose behaviour had been unforgivable as far as Chris was concerned was Emma. Chris told her the unvarnished truth ABOUT HERSELF – George was almost irrelevant except as the cause of her appalling betrayal. So what happened next? Neil comforted her because she was cwying. T'chah!

Chris said very little about George.
Her waste of space of a son nearly destroyed Alice's life, and Chris's, and Martha's, and she thinks 'sorry' is going to make that better?
George deliberately framed Alice.
her pathetic excuse for a son, who knew exactly what he was doing when he put Alice in the driving seat, that piece of garbage, is more important [to Emma] than an innocent little three-year-old

The main thrust of his remarks was that Emma had behaved very, very badly, that she could have stopped the ordeal Alice, he and Martha were being put through weeks ago and hadn't done it, that she should be utterly ashamed of herself, and that he did not want to see or speak to her again.

I reckon Geeowerge has done/will do a bunk with uncle Clive.

I’m not sure Clive will be interested in him now

perhaps this is where Meg comes in …

Clive won’t be interested now he no longer has any leverage over Emma. I suppose there’s a chance he was genuine about wanting to see Kylie so might come back and try to get her details from someone again but I think we’ve seen the last of him. I’m not sure where he actually lives now.

If George is going to be put away for a long period of time, perhaps Clive has been brought back to be the baddie in George's absence?

While it’s true that Clive is too well acted for his appearance to be a one-off, I’d very much prefer George not to go to prison. (Or to suffer any worse outcome.) It’s too much heartbreak for his family.

George is at a crossroads - if he goes to prison he will end up a proper baddie

its also tricky for the sw given what’s going on with prisons and sentencing. violent assaults don’t seem to get prison time these days

Unless Usha is the Crown prosecutor there's no reason why the charge of perverting the course of justice charge won't stand.

@LillianGish is correct, if the CPS charge him with perverting the course of justice that is much more serious than any of the driving offenses (unless they go for dangerous driving, but it would be very hard to prove).

Perverting the course of justice usually has about a 4 year jail sentence. However, he might get mitigation for admitting before Alice's trial.

What mitigation do you get for a guilty plea? I’m assuming they’re not going to put us through a trial

If I were on the jury on the basis of what we definitely know I wouldn't be persuaded that there was no reasonable doubt at the time George drove the car that he was over the limit.

I might if I heard evidence from others at the party that he'd been drinking there and if he'd done something which brought his drinking to their notice.

I listened to yesterday’s, today, and Chris realised that Emma had known about it since Clive appeared. IIRC he seemed really surprised so he must have assumed initially that she too had only just found out. I wonder if he has then said “Emma’s known for ages” to others.

If George pleads guilty to perverting the course of justice would they bother charging him with other things that are harder to prove and would require a trial?

He won't plead until he's actually in court, which is why they ought to charge him with the lot. Remember how Alice changed her plea when in the dock?

That's a very good point. Chris went over to be angry with Emma about George, and only after Emma made him realise how long she had known about George's crime did he get really angry with her.

He might well tell Kate and Brian that Emma knew for many weeks and kept quiet. But does he know about Will?

Everyone will know she knew by the end of the episode!!

Broke the mold with you - yes jazzer, because a maths genius being into chess is so unusual (unless I misheard…)

is the bread story true? And why was the competition men only?

as for Harrison - as predicted - his baybee. I would have given George a medal if Harrison had been in the car and he’d forgotten to rescue him. As recompense please let him be sacked. Nice that Fallon trusts her husband not to resort to physical violence🙄. The scene with Alice was super cringe and he really needs to make less random noises

i guess Alice is being mature. But isn’t it obvious why he did it? Bit odd that they even spent time speculating

Brian is off gallivanting a lot!!

and Robert with the litter - agree on the random poo bags being hung up but they’re laying it on a bit thick