Archers thread #172: Come on, Clive! Spill the beans and put us all out of our misery. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that Clive sounds deeply misunderstood, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Fete over, cricket season over - can the Flower and Produce show be far behind? I don't think I've heard a mention of it this year. Have I not been paying attention?

In any real village, preparations for the Christmas show would already be under way, but not in Ambridge, of course. I am probably in a minority of one in regretting this.

With any luck, though, by Christmas this incredibly protracted tale of Alice, George and the crash will be behind us at last. Do we think Clive's really gone? I don't believe it. We won't be rid of him that easily. Will he go to the police himself? Will he attempt to blackmail his family or extort money from the Aldridges in return for information that would secure Alice's acquittal? Do we care? I find I don't really, unfortunately. I did enjoy hearing Clive for those few brief exchanges but I've had enough now. Unrelieved nastiness is not really what I want from TA.

Over to you!

Here: needs tapping to enlarge and see full extract:

Really? That's the opposite of my family. I routinely use the word cousin to describe anyone vaguely related and the same generation as me and aunt/uncle to describe a generation older, although I know the proper relation names. We see some of my second cousins and second cousins once removed at least three or four times a year at various family gatherings. I also call my brother's and sister's in-laws my in-laws for ease of reference (e.g. there's someone I call my sister-in-law who is actually my brother's wife's sister - I don't do it for the older generation - MIL and FIL - just BIL and SIL).

I suspect cops may be a bit more enthusiastic about shifting themselves to answer calls when presented with an easy arrest and charge.

I talk about cousins, too. I can usually tell you their distance and remove, but most people don't care about that level of detail, unless it's a family tree related conversation.

George would qualify for legal aid for a solicitor.

Between Oxford and MK. Definitely EWR. I remember the old route!

Mostly I can only identify my first cousins (there were 50 of them, a few of whom I never met) but do know some of greater degree and with a remove or two, and will immediately claim any slightly famous one who shows up on a radio show or in a newspaper, however distant the relationship.

And I do keep track of the Archer cousinships.

I don't even know all my first cousins and the ones I did know I haven't seen for over 30 years. We're not a close knit family and are widely spread geographically.

I'm much closer to cousins and extended family on one side than the other. Partly due to geography (Irish diaspora spread widely), but also just the nature/ relationships of the families. I guess that's fairly standard.

I have four first cousins but we don't really keep in touch closely. I see them at funerals and not much otherwise. We lived a long way apart in childhood and my Mum is the only one of our parents who's left now. I marvel at the people I encounter both in RL and on MN who still live in the place where they grew up and who seem to have their entire extended families living within a mile or two. Not something I have any experience of. Oddly, these days I see a bit more of some of my parents' cousins because several of them live near my Mum and visit her. There's a lot to be said for being part of a close community but I imagine it can be very claustrophobic.

I find the whole ‘how have you not told Ed!’ A bit strange. If my child had confided something in me (or DH) and asked not to tell the other parent I would respect that and encourage to share but wouldn’t push it if trying to get to a solution. Which in this case Emma was. In this scenario you could also argue she was protecting Ed

if I were Ed I would be more annoyed that she has put herself in a difficult legal position. Ultimately whenever George’s actions came to light they would have had a negative impact on the whole family regardless of who knew.

the one thing that Emma has done that will have her pilloried is the offering to be the character witness for Alice as that clearly indicates she was going to cover for George. Eventually being the one to call the police will not mitigate that

I need to catch up

Not to mention the Facebook group for parents of children starting next September? (FB may now be for oldies, but in our area that includes parents of reception children)

the one thing that Emma has done that will have her pilloried is the offering to be the character witness for Alice as that clearly indicates she was going to cover for George. Eventually being the one to call the police will not mitigate that I’d forgotten that! Her motivation was to keep Alice out of jail, ie avoid a huge miscarriage of justice, but you’re right, she was colluding in the merely large miscarriage of justice that would give Alice a conviction. Do you think the SWs have realised that?

I routinely use the word cousin to describe anyone vaguely related and the same generation as me and aunt/uncle to describe a generation older, although I know the proper relation names. My mother’s cousin married her aunt. That messed up the family tree somewhat. (No incest involved - they were big families in those days)

I have only 3 cousins. And although I know all 4 of my first-cousins-once-removed, I doubt whether my children will keep up the relationship. I sometimes envy those with large and close families. (Then I read about sibling rivalries about Wills in AIBU and elder care in Elderly Parents and I come to my senses)

we wanted the shaming of George and the vindication of Alice.

I want the former (which hasn’t happened yet) but most emphatically not the latter. I do hope the SWs have the police drop the current charges but then charge her with Drunk In Charge, to which she can have no defence, and that in light of the amount of alcohol consumed and her admission that taking the cattle, parking up and getting rat-arsed is something she had done on several occasions, she loses her licence. That should be nice and inconvenient for her.

(far too many ‘charges’ in the above, I know)

Very good point, Alice's habit to getting very very drunk in her car, miles from home, was a seriously bad, dangerous, thing and needed calling out. And actually did cause the whole mess.

Yes she still needs the reality check. I think if she is fully vindicated she will then slip back into drinking

i also think she’s going to be unbearably smug about the whole thing and expect apologies from family when I don’t think that’s necessary.

I disagree and think Alice will be the only member of the Aldridge family who shows compassion towards George. I’m sure she will recall the grace and forgiveness Susan and Jim displayed when she threw the brink through the shop window. I don’t think she will be smug at all.

Kate on the other hand will be unbearable. I’m surprised she didn’t pick up on a ‘bad aura’ around Emma and George throughout all of this.

You have more faith in Alice than I do!!

Don’t think I can bear Harrison’s reaction

Don’t think I can bear Harrison’s reaction

Oh, if he lays violent hands on George and is ignominiously booted out of the filf, I will bear it very lightly. Fallon abandoning the vegan caff plans because household income is precarious would be a delightful bonus, as would disintegration of that marriage.

My grandparents (my father's parents) were first cousins. They married just after the First World War. It was quite legal - and I believe it still is. Neither I, nor any of their other descendants, have two heads.

My children find the very idea of marrying (ie having sex with) their cousins gross.

Victoria and Albert were first cousins I believe. I'm sure it is still legal but am rushing out so no time to check.

A one off cousin marriage is one thing but the genetic issues occur when it is repeated though generations

Agree with @Eastie77Returns , she'll be so relieved she's not going mad

I'm most interested in Chris's reaction!