Archers thread #172: Come on, Clive! Spill the beans and put us all out of our misery. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that Clive sounds deeply misunderstood, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Fete over, cricket season over - can the Flower and Produce show be far behind? I don't think I've heard a mention of it this year. Have I not been paying attention?

In any real village, preparations for the Christmas show would already be under way, but not in Ambridge, of course. I am probably in a minority of one in regretting this.

With any luck, though, by Christmas this incredibly protracted tale of Alice, George and the crash will be behind us at last. Do we think Clive's really gone? I don't believe it. We won't be rid of him that easily. Will he go to the police himself? Will he attempt to blackmail his family or extort money from the Aldridges in return for information that would secure Alice's acquittal? Do we care? I find I don't really, unfortunately. I did enjoy hearing Clive for those few brief exchanges but I've had enough now. Unrelieved nastiness is not really what I want from TA.

Over to you!

Repeated first cousin marriage is a problem for Travellers in Ireland and in some South Asian families in the UK. Repeated 3rd and 4th cousin marriage was universal in most rural communities - all those jokes about keeping the land/dowry in the family are rooted in reality. It would make total sense to arrange a dynastic marriage between Rosie and Xander or Johnnie.

Those things about everyone being descended for Charlemagne that start with an assumption that our number of direct-line ancestors doubles every generation always make me roll my eyes.

Yes, but fortunately the younger generations all regard it as tantamount to incest and are unlikely to repeat it, so I think we're safe.

I'm quite old and although I'm very fond of many of my male first cousins, I really wouldn't.

I've researched my family history for many years and there were several first cousins marriages in one branch of the family in one particular generation (all born in the 2nd half of the 19th Century). Curiously, I haven't found any in the Irish side of the family or amongst those living in isolated villages, just in this one branch who all lived in London. They were Methodists so perhaps that restricted their social circle. It doesn't appear to have been done to safeguard family property as they didn't have much (and certainly none that ever reached me).

The idea of marrying my first cousin makes me feel quite ill. Possibly because the two male cousins I’m closest to resemble my brothers (their mother is my late mother’s twin and my aunt weirdly married a man who looks a bit like my dad!)

I think Chris will go ballistic because of the impact all of this has had on Marthurrr. He will disown Emma. Harrison will go complete Neanderthal and try to attack George whilst Fallon talks him down and reminds him George saved her life. We’ll then have to put up with his remorse and droaning on “ow could I ave got it sooo wrong about Alice. I’m a police officer, I should have know summat was wrong..”

Harrison will go complete Neanderthal and try to attack George whilst Fallon talks him down and reminds him George saved her life. We’ll then have to put up with his remorse and droaning on “ow could I ave got it sooo wrong about Alice. I’m a police officer, I should have know summat was wrong..”

Not so sure about all that. (Well, he might have a go at George, which will put an end to his police career, given that he's on final warning. Then he will train to become a priest. 😦)
He will not forgive Alice for being DIC in the first place, without which none of this would have happened.

No, it didn't cause this mess. What it caused was Alice sitting passed out in her car. There is nothing about that that demanded that another person get in and drive her anywhere (especially without insurance), let alone that forced that person to have an accident, pull her across to the driving seat to blame it on her, and lie to the police and everyone else about it.

Not the point but I can't work out how it is possible to have 50 cousins.

Parents have many siblings, e.g, One of 9, One of seven children.
Children grow up and have their own children.

Mary then has 8 sets of cousins from one side and 6 from the other. If all of the sets average >3 children each that's 50+ cousins.

Father from family of 8, his siblings have 9 - 1 - 0 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 0 children
Mother from family of 8, her siblings have 7- 1 - 5 - 2 - 8 - 7 - 0 children

Second cousins a bit more complicated with a grandmother from a family of 13 and a grandfather from a family of 15

My mum has over 50 first cousins and 150 second cousins (Irish catholic family: 19 aunts/uncles who all got married and had an average of 3 children each)

Age and culture have a lot to do with it.
If you are 60+ you probably have more siblings and cousins. If you are from a Protestant family and are younger than 60, you probably fewer siblings than your older friends and friends from different religions

(generalising but YKWIM).
My school friends were generally from large broods, but the younger children at school were mainly one of two siblings.

My parents had lots of first cousins. At least 2 of their uncles had 9 children.

No, of course it didn't cause it. George did.

But it was a necessary condition. If she wasn't already guilty of being DIC then we'd all just be looking forward to the Flower and Produce Show and Xander's first nativity play.

And Harrison isn't going to be rational.

Back to TA:

The Aldriges will emerge from Bridge-gate absolutely fine. Kate and Alice have just declared undying love for each other and Brian has always supported Alice.

Chris and Alice will probably get back together as she recognises that he was the one person who always believed in her.

The Archers will be unaffected - although Johnny may have to come home to fill the gap left by George if he goes to prison. (Interesting that the First Family are so irrelevant to this major SL.)

But the real fall out will be felt by the Grundy's and the Carters whose relationships are likely to be ripped apart when the truth and, just as importantly, the truth about the cover up comes out. I really feel for Susan and Emma (and goodness knows how poor old Clarrie will cope - I wouldn't be buying any Bridge Farm yoghurt for a while as it will be full of bitter tears).

And I am assuming Harrison will thump George (or anyone really) and lose his job. Quite what this will mean for him and Fallon is anyone's guess. I have given up trying to make any sense of their relationship.

I shall be decidedly miffed if Meg and Bartleby don't feature in some way, otherwise what was the point of her?

My grandfather (the one who married his cousin) was the youngest of 13 and had well over 100 cousins just on his mother's side. Huge Victorian families with mothers having children from 20 or so into their 40s and often having their last child or children after the birth of their first grandchildren. Very different times.

It makes it very difficult to do much meaningful research into the lives of many of these women as they had no time to do anything outside the family. If you look at them, they were either pregnant or breastfeeding virtually continuously for 20+ years.

I feel very sorry for Neil, Susan and Ed because no-one will believe they didn’t know all along.

I don’t think the Bridge Farm lot will be particularly upset and so Susan and Clarrie will be fine (employment wise). None of them have been particularly concerned about Alice. I often forget Tom and Helen are her cousins.

Similarly, when Helen was in prison and on trial I don’t recall any of the Aldridge’s apart from Adam showing any interest.

surely sacking Susan and clarrie would be breaching some form of employment law? Maybe Justin can advise…

it would also be spiteful and stupid because they will never find replacements!

I guess if Will and George are charged they will have a better argument (although innocent until proven guilty in court?) and Emma and George are casual workers so can be let go easily?

holding a whole extended family guilty for one persons crime is nasty behaviour.

I think a good defence lawyer might be able to convince people who have never met George that the poor young lad, finding his Auntie Alice (who the family care about so much) passed out drunk in a car, was doing a kind if foolish thing in trying to get her home. Moving her into the driver's seat not so much, but will they be able to prove she didn't move herself?

Not owning up - well, he was shocked, suffering from PTSD, saw his friend Fallon nearly drown etc etc etc. Lovely lad, known for his fondness for animals.

You can fool some of the people some of the time.

God it's like Alabama

Whose reaction will we hear tonight?

Ed, bewildered and not happy that Emma hadn't told him?
Will, annoyed that Emma phoned the police without speaking to him first? Clarrie and Susan weeping in the dairy?
Alice?
Chris, furious?
Harrison (please, not Harrison!)
Joy, rethinking the accident?
Brian?
Kate (again, please, no)

Nobody will blame Clarrie or Susan for the sins of their grandson.

I apologise for quoting the whole post, I did not know that this was a rule so I am sorry if I have caused anyone any inconvenience.

I am blind and use screen-reading software and have not yet figured out how to highlight sections of a post on here without using the mouse, I use keyboard short cuts to navigate the internet as this is the only way to access it with my screen-reader.

Sorry again for breaking the rules and please consider me suitably chastised, I promise not to do it again.

It’s not a rule! Don’t worry about it. Please don’t let it put you off joining in

Everlore, I work in web design and it’s really eye opening to me how different and sometimes difficult it is for people using screen readers to navigate some websites. Don’t worry about quoting posts.

All of these I reckon (although possibly not all tonight) - but Ed is going to return from delivering the ram and be absolutely and justifiably furious. It’s going to create a huge rift in his relationship with Emma.

Clarrie and Susan will be weeping so copiously they’ll have to relabel the yoghurt as salted lassi.

I can’t wait for Harrison to find out (rubs hands evilly). Ma bebeh!

Maybe the village shop should start stocking Humble Pie instead of apricot roulade, ‘cos there’s going to be a lot of demand.

@VioletIsabella Harrison (please, not Harrison!)

What about if we heard Harrison running amok shrieking and threatening Death to George (Because Death of Harrispawn) and ever-so-tragically being accidentally flattened by a passing steamroller?