Archers thread #169: Denise rocks the boat in more than one way! Will Chris find a message in a cider bottle? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd have liked to have Harrison's behbe, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LikeTalkingToLassie and @BrightYellowDaffodil for title inspiration. Is this the end for Denise and John? It does seem odd to introduce John now if he's going to disappear. He has a lovely voice.

Over to you!

I believe they can sometimes be recovered by the phone company, though presumable only for a limited period of time. But that would require someone to know or guess that George had called Will and left a message, which would be stretching credibility, even by the standards of TA scriptwriters

Maybe the fact of a call, just the time and location rather than any content, will come into play. Not that location would be that accurate in a rural area, but they might fudge that in the interests of Drama. Not possible for him to have arrived at the bridge on foot in the time..,

I think she did.

The only way I can cope with Denise is imagining her as her character in Outlaws.

As I may have mentioned - the actress must be finding Denise disappointingly dull compared to her Outlaws character!

The message/cider bottle etc are all there to add dramatic tension but ultimately it will come out through alice remembering or George confessing. If that happens in court I will be really annoyed!

Although George feels guilty, he shows no sign of fessing up from (and to) his guilt . He allowed Alice to go to court ready to plead guilty and take the punishment (and serious consequences), for something that he did, and very deliberately set her up for, with no sign whatsoever of taking responsibility himself.

His prime concern seems to be for himself being found out, and trying to avoid that. I would be surprised if he confessed, without being caught out, or the fear of being caught out getting too much for him.

I am not sure he has the mental strength or guile to stand up to the pressure of, and bat away, any serious questions about things that may implicate or expose him, like the cider bottle etc.

I want to say ‘poor George’ … Just a kid, minimally educated, untravelled, inexperienced in life - someone who, at the moment he acted on impulse to save himself, almost certainly wasn’t able to foresee either the specific or wider consequences of his actions.

But then I remember how skilfully and coldly he manipulated his father, in order to get revenge on Hannah by having her evicted …

Obviously if Alice had seatbelt bruising after the accident it would be clear she was in the passenger seat at the time, but presumably she did not.

How long would that kind of bruising last? Would George have it too? It's been driven home to us that he's been posting videos to social media without his top on.

Alice was trying to open the door so wouldn't she have taken the seat belt off? I don't think it was a very sudden stop either.

This. I think George was already slowing down, and I don't think she had the seat belt on.

George is making such a fuss about the fruit cider, someone is bound to ak why at some point, though they'll probably think Tilly had made some comment about it.

According to Fallon their car got to the bridge and the other car came straight for them, it clipped the front of Mick’s car and Mick swerved out of the way. Doesn’t really sound like George was slowing down, neither did the noise in the accident, it was like the impact came right out of the blue.

George definitely fastened Alice into the passenger seat, heard the click quite clearly.

You repeatedly heard Alice what sounded like ineffectually flipping the door opener, after George showed no sign of stopping when she repeatedly told him she was going to be sick. She did not open the door (no click or change in road noise from within the car). Neither did she unclick her seatbelt or we would have heard it.

The way Lily says ‘Paul’ is weird and annoying.

And he obviously doesn’t know about Alistair.

Stella’s gushing on Friday was bizarre, when she’s clearly realising how little she and Pip have in common.

I thought Lily was very prying with Paul, then repeat with Freddie.
Presumably it's the SWs way of letting us know what's up, but two in one episode?

In other news I rarely bake, but always use lard for shortcrust pastry just like my mum did.

Why is Stella with Pip when she's not that keen on her?

Stella seemed quite keen in Fridays episode.

I know Pip is not very popular here, but I actually thought she was very understanding on Thursday.

Stella had arranged to go round to Pip’s for something to eat. Pip had bought a load of Thai food in for them. Stella didn’t even bother to let Pip know she was not going round. Pip rings Stella who is obviously much later than expected, Stella just tells Pip she is too tired, with no apology for not letting her know or for all the food Pip has got in especially.

I think I would be more than a tad annoyed in Pips situation, but pip is very easy like it’s no problem at all. Perhaps Stella admires Pip’s doormat qualities.

I think it would be pretty bad if pip to try and make Stella feel bad for not going round when she knew she had that important meeting etc yes she bought food but that can be kept.

Stella should have told her as soon as she realised she would be going for drinks

they have a weird relationship though- not sure if that’s the writing though

So boring last night.

The SWs have done that thing of ducking out of “difficult” conversations. We ended one episode with Paul innocently heading for a night with his parents which we knew was going to turn his world view upside down, and we started the next episode with him having received the news, got back home and having discussed it with his flat mates.

I’ve noticed this so many times over the last few years. Can’t remember it at all from TA of more than 10 years back

... and on the rare occasions they do stage them, everyone behaves completely out-of-character.

I think Stella is happy with their relationship as it is, but is wary of getting drawn in deeper - for example through taking on a step-parental role to Rosie. We saw that with the cat conversation yesterday. Pip sees getting a cat as a joint decision, and doesn't want to get a cat if Stella doesn't like them. Ostensibly this is because Stella spends so much time at Pip's house, but Pip's probably also thinking long-term, anticipating the possibility of moving in together one day. Stella firmly pushed back on that notion - Pip's house, Pip's decision, nothing to do with Stella.

In which case, maybe Stella's discomfort with the hen do is not only about the prospect of a pedicure from Chelsea?

Yes, I suspect Stella doesn't want to live together while Pip sees that as a natural development in their relationship. Not only do some people not want to live with the person with whom they're in a relationship - I bloody wouldn't again! - but I should imagine Stella foresees a situation where she ends up being Rosie's step-mother whether she likes it or not.

I think Ruth called it correctly when she expressed concerns about their relationship.

It’s not just the age gap. They are fundamentally very different. Pip wants a cosy domestic set up. Stella does not. When Pip announced they were all going around to her parents for dinner this week Stella replied with the same strained, unconvincing ‘sure, that’s fine’ reply that she gives whenever Rosie is included in their plans. Pip is just too self-absorbed to notice.

Thank you for explaining ‘fascial’ - I was wondering how a grass seed could possibly travel that far in a short time!

I wish Pip and Stella could keep their sex talk off air. That quite put me off my breakfast (listening on catch up) this morning.

The accident was over two months ago, there is no way George would still have seatbelt bruising now.