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Archers thread #169: Denise rocks the boat in more than one way! Will Chris find a message in a cider bottle? Discuss The Archers here.

985 replies

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 10/07/2024 22:53

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

Archers All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd have liked to have Harrison's behbe, or other unusual views. Grin

Archers Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

Archers For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LikeTalkingToLassie and @BrightYellowDaffodil for title inspiration. Is this the end for Denise and John? It does seem odd to introduce John now if he's going to disappear. He has a lovely voice.

Over to you!

OP posts:
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VoxPop · 12/07/2024 15:10

Yeah I had mentioned about possible saliva tests before, also if police have kept the bottles then tellingly Alice’s fingerprints will not be on the fruit cider one.

WagnersFourthSymphony · 12/07/2024 16:52

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 11/07/2024 19:29

My absolute favourite chocolate biscuits, kept for special occasions only, are Bahlsen Choco Leibniz (plain chocolate). Petit beurre biscuit, thick layer of good chocolate. Delicious.

Haven't heard tonight's episode yet. Have I missed much?

I like the orangey Leibniz ones. Like jaffa cakes but nicer and much less calorific (unless you happen to eat a whole packet of course)

Eastie77Returns · 12/07/2024 17:05

It doesn't matter if Alice's saliva and fingerprints are not on the fruit cider bottle. It would be entirely in keeping with George's story if his were the only fingerprints on it as he can say he was carrying the bottle or drinking from it when he found her at the wheel of the car after the crash.

The fact that Alice was drunk is indisputable and it doesn't really matter what she was drinking. The fruit cider is a red herring imo.

She needs to prove she didn't drive from the woods to the scene of the crash.

Lalgarh · 12/07/2024 17:09

Man alive 157 posts in 2 days

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 12/07/2024 17:11

I know! I blame the Biscuit talk.

OP posts:
LillianGish · 12/07/2024 17:40

George dived in the river before he went to the car - witnessed by Denistair. He didn’t announce ‘Alice Aldridge is in the car - she was driving’ either at that point or after he rescued Fallon - in fact at that point he was presumably doing his best to disassociate himself from the car. He then disappeared off and only then announced he had found Alice. His story (presumably to the police as well) was that he was walking home and saw the car in the river. He witnessed the aftermath, not the accident and didn’t find Alice until after that. That being the case he would hardly have picked up the empty cider bottle and carried it to the car. I must say I find it hard to picture where everyone was in this scenario, but presumably Alice’s car was not visible from the bridge or the river.

Bruisername · 12/07/2024 17:49

We don’t know what he told the police. And none of it really makes sense because alastairenor denise would surely have seen Alice’s car? There’s no reason he would have mentioned Alice to Alastair and Denise while they were going to the rescue

Eastie77Returns · 12/07/2024 18:08

LillianGish · 12/07/2024 17:40

George dived in the river before he went to the car - witnessed by Denistair. He didn’t announce ‘Alice Aldridge is in the car - she was driving’ either at that point or after he rescued Fallon - in fact at that point he was presumably doing his best to disassociate himself from the car. He then disappeared off and only then announced he had found Alice. His story (presumably to the police as well) was that he was walking home and saw the car in the river. He witnessed the aftermath, not the accident and didn’t find Alice until after that. That being the case he would hardly have picked up the empty cider bottle and carried it to the car. I must say I find it hard to picture where everyone was in this scenario, but presumably Alice’s car was not visible from the bridge or the river.

How could Denistaire (love the name) have known he was diving into into the river before finding Alice? They came across him by the river shortly before he went in to help Mick and Joy and then he was frantically saving Fallon’s life. It’s perfectly plausible that in the shock and chaos of it all he didn’t find time to mention Alice as his focus was on the possible imminent death of 3 people.

The fact that he ran to find her after the rescue only makes sense if he knew she was there beforehand i.e. he discovered her prior to the rescue. Her car wasn’t visible to anyone so why else could he have known she was there (I’m just arguing this from his POV)?

Fink · 12/07/2024 18:08

Bruisername · 12/07/2024 17:49

We don’t know what he told the police. And none of it really makes sense because alastairenor denise would surely have seen Alice’s car? There’s no reason he would have mentioned Alice to Alastair and Denise while they were going to the rescue

We know that Alice's car was out of sight, because when George went back to move her, Alistair and Denise didn't know where he'd gone and Alistair had to follow him to find out.

That also probably rules out dash cam footage from Alistair's car, which has previously been mentioned here as a possibility.

Gonners · 12/07/2024 18:36

I think that in TA (as in life generally) it is unrealistic to expect anything to make sense.

Bruisername · 12/07/2024 19:15

Gonners · 12/07/2024 18:36

I think that in TA (as in life generally) it is unrealistic to expect anything to make sense.

True!!

TottersBlanklyTowardsImaginarySunlight · 12/07/2024 19:15

Awkwaaaaaard …

VoxPop · 12/07/2024 19:20

Eastie77Returns · 12/07/2024 17:05

It doesn't matter if Alice's saliva and fingerprints are not on the fruit cider bottle. It would be entirely in keeping with George's story if his were the only fingerprints on it as he can say he was carrying the bottle or drinking from it when he found her at the wheel of the car after the crash.

The fact that Alice was drunk is indisputable and it doesn't really matter what she was drinking. The fruit cider is a red herring imo.

She needs to prove she didn't drive from the woods to the scene of the crash.

But what is his story and what statement did he originally give the police as witness to a serious accident.

As far as I understand, the empty fruit cider bottle had been attributed to Alice by the police as she had been told she had drunk that. It seems so far there is no story from George linking him to the empty fruit cider bottle.

If he told the police he went to Alice’s car only after his heroics, then people are going to start asking questions. As pointed out by @LillianGish Why after all his efforts in the river, would he pick up his empty fruit cider bottle and put it in Alices car. In fact why would he have put it in her car in an accident like that even if he went to her car first, surely the reaction would be to drop it and try to help not stow it neatly away goodness knows where in the car.

Given Alices defence has Alice believing she was not driving and Chris having serious questions about who else could have been in the car, they will want at the very least want to investigate any potential mitigating circumstances. Even Adam knows she has instinctively referred to us being in the car.

If George sudden claims that it was his cider bottle in the car, and it is known George ran to the (seemingly not visible) car when he heard the sirens and was alone with the car for a time before Alistair found him, they may then start looking at where he had been and how logical route wise it was for him to conveniently be at the scene of the accident. If he would have passed Alice’s car parked in the woods on the way there, phone evidence including positional, video evidence etc etc. The police would surely have asked if he witnessed the accident. Did Alice’s car pass him.

So I would think an unraveling (possibly creating pressure on George and leading to a confession) is one logical potential route to the truth coming out (if indeed it ever does).

Similarly with the car key and his fingerprints, very much depends on his story in the initial statement, but if the key was still in the ignition and his fingerprints on the key, he would have to make up more and more suspicious convoluted stories. Same with his fingerprints all over the steering wheel and gear stick and on the passenger seat belt when fastening Alice in. Also on the drivers seatbelt when fastening himself in and Alice in after dragging her back over. Let alone any potential vomit evidence on the passenger seatbelt indicating it was fastened.

It seemed obvious from his comments on the night that he had never been in the car before so he could not use that to account for the fingerprints.

Obviously if Alice had seatbelt bruising after the accident it would be clear she was in the passenger seat at the time, but presumably she did not.

Altogether even without video or Alice’s vague memories crystallising, I think there is likely to be a wealth of evidence for anyone looking closely enough, especially if triggered by initial circumstantial evidence throwing more doubt and suspicion on George.

Bruisername · 12/07/2024 19:49

Ultimately we all probably heard it differently but in my mind Alice’s car would still have been running with lights on etc so odd alastair and Denise didn’t notice it

George being the only one on the scene with no means of transport and no witness is the obvious suspect as soon as they start thinking someone else was driving

VoxPop · 12/07/2024 21:21

@Gonners probably hit the nail on the head …

“I think that in TA (as in life generally) it is unrealistic to expect anything to make sense.”

Molecule · 12/07/2024 21:56

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 12/07/2024 14:43

Also, reverting to biscuits, nobody has mentioned shorbread yet. Lovely stuff.

This is from Jennifer Aldridge's Archers cookbook, written by Angela Piper (who she? Grin). Not tried the recipe. I think this text is absolutely spot on and I can hear Jennifer saying it.

I have a very similar recipe. In my recipe notebook it says “Oat Snaps (Nigel Slater’s) - very yummy, gone in seconds”. And they are, though mine call for 100% butter. If it continues to drizzle this weekend I may have to make some.

Cocteautriplet · 12/07/2024 22:13

Isn’t there a security camera on Rex’s boat? I seem to remember it being mentioned when Pip and Kirsty did the boat repairs shortly after the Incident but I could he mistaken.

JoelenesParrot · 12/07/2024 23:02

This thread is at its best when discussing biscuits! Much better than when it veers off talking about linguistics!

In the past Neil has generally been a pretty sympathetic character, but I'm now starting to find both his voice and the way he delivers his lines intensely annoying

I agree with this. Neil has become a caricature of his former self.

And while I felt slightly sorry for Lycra-clad John learning about the end of his marriage on a bench, I didn’t really care. He and Denise are so peripheral.

I still can’t quite nail what biscuits Denise would buy in the shop. I just don’t think she would buy Rich Tea as in her head she thinks she is more interesting than that. Hobnobs is most likely and whatever A favours. I bet he is the sort that breaks a biscuit in two, rather than bites into it. Jim probably does that too.

BerylBillings · 13/07/2024 00:14

Have a sneaking suspicion that Alistair harbours affection for a Malted Milk.

Based entirely on the cow picture being apt for a vet.

In fact he carefully nibbles round the cows and amuses himself by trotting a biscuity herd of them across his desk.

FloreatAmbridge · 13/07/2024 00:20

Cocteautriplet · 12/07/2024 22:13

Isn’t there a security camera on Rex’s boat? I seem to remember it being mentioned when Pip and Kirsty did the boat repairs shortly after the Incident but I could he mistaken.

The only mention of Rex having a security camera has been on the fanpages, from listeners hoping he has a camera, which they again hope might have captured the crash.

What I suspect you're remembering is that when Pip and Kirsty did the boat repairs, they speculated that the damage had been inflicted by debris from the crash.

Trivium4all · 13/07/2024 00:31

Crackers will do, but in my experiences of organising neutral yet attractive bases for wine & cheese dos, plain oatcakes or baguette slices are the most useful. For some cheeses, pumpernickel rounds are also excellent, but these are maybe a bit too flavourful to do for all cheeses.

The main problem with most cracker types is that they're too frangible. Crumbs everywhere.

The sweetness of oatcakes complements a lot of cheeses.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 13/07/2024 07:07

BerylBillings · 13/07/2024 00:14

Have a sneaking suspicion that Alistair harbours affection for a Malted Milk.

Based entirely on the cow picture being apt for a vet.

In fact he carefully nibbles round the cows and amuses himself by trotting a biscuity herd of them across his desk.

Love this!

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Hercisback · 13/07/2024 07:27

I don't hate Alistair and Denise as a thing. If she'd have been single and they got together, why not?

But the swift marriage break down and apparent end just seems utterly bizarre. Why not script her as a single mum from the start instead of shoe horning in this ridiculous story line?

Pip and Stella 🤮 Why does Pip talk like a love sick teen? She's 30s.

CaptainMyCaptain · 13/07/2024 07:28

BerylBillings · 13/07/2024 00:14

Have a sneaking suspicion that Alistair harbours affection for a Malted Milk.

Based entirely on the cow picture being apt for a vet.

In fact he carefully nibbles round the cows and amuses himself by trotting a biscuity herd of them across his desk.

🤣

Ambridge · 13/07/2024 07:45

I enjoyed Jennifer throwing shade on the Horrobins through the medium of cookbooks, @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g, but she might have erred into been a bit over-snarky about the lard there. I’m sure she must have made her own fair share of game pies for the shoots, necessitating hot-water pastry and thus….lard 🐷🐷🐷

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