Archers thread #169: Denise rocks the boat in more than one way! Will Chris find a message in a cider bottle? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd have liked to have Harrison's behbe, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LikeTalkingToLassie and @BrightYellowDaffodil for title inspiration. Is this the end for Denise and John? It does seem odd to introduce John now if he's going to disappear. He has a lovely voice.

Over to you!

I actually thought Pip wasn't bad tonight:

I agree, She genuinely interested and affectionate.

I thought there was a moment where Stella explained why she couldn't come over (tiredness) and Pip made one of those "Aaaaaaw" sounds and then laid on the guilt about why she really should come because of all the stuff she'd bought, and she needed assistance with something.

Maybe I'm just being hypersensitive as I find that kind of stuff a red flag in real life

Neil’s voice seems to have become a lot more sing songy.

I'm enjoying older-man Neil because it reminds me of the times when Jethro and Phil mentored gormless young Neil all those decades ago.

Bath Olivers, IMHO, are the best biscuit/cracker for cheese.

Impossible to buy here in Portugal.

JC! George and his sunburn. I wouldn't worry about girls not fancying a sunburnt man but what about the skin cancer concern? FFS - are they all so bl.... ignorant. This would have been a good opportunity to raise the risk of skin cancer. Directly related to sunburn, lack of use of sunscreen/ covering up. Plus the ageing element.

Can I tempt you towards Lotus biscuits for cheesecake base? They’re the best biscuit anyway

No. You can keep all the Lotus biscuits. They are certainly not the best.

Are the SW setting Neil up to be the one who pieces things together and has to decide whether to shop his grandson?

Neil would be quite good for that. He's generally fair-minded and all about doing the right thing. He would be showing his disappointment and urging George to own up, while Emma would be excusing him left, right and centre, and saying it was Alice's fault anyway. And Chris would be furious about what Alice has been through unnecessarily, and Susan would be all bothered about Neil having torn the family apart and he should have just kept it to himself. And then there's all the Aldridges.

Also he and George had that fall out over the pig job and George thinking his grandad wasn’t loyal

Poor Neil has already endured Susan and Emma going on at him for disciplining and then firing George. He doesn't need a repeat!

What's needed is a three-way conversation between Neil, Chris and Joy:
Neil: I just can't understand what's wrong with the lad. He bit my head off when I offered him a fruit cider at haymaking - claims he hates the stuff!
Joy: No - that can't be right! I distinctly remember selling him four bottles of fruit cider on the night of the crash.
Chris: Wait - are you saying George bought fruit cider from you?
Joy: Aye - I'm not likely to forget that night in a hurry. I felt terrible about selling Alice that bottle of vodka, I've gone back over it in my mind a hundred times, I blame myself etc etc

The job's yours, welcome to the SW team @LillianGish!

Yes! Why do they make such a meal of things when it could be straightforward!

it’s drama for its own sake. I can’t believe they’ve brought in a load of new listeners after bridge night who are excitedly waiting for the denouement

Perfection, @LillianGish , I'm going to be furious if that doesn't happen. Should Adam be there as well, to remember that 'we were' ?

Brava, @LillianGish!

Given the sentences people seem to get do we even think George would do time? I think the police would actually sympathise with him and not bother filing charges - stupid alcoholic woman

so the push back is a divided village

@LillianGish I think that's exactly how it's going to go.

(Side note: I wonder if the SWs ever read this thread and think "Dammit, they've sussed that storyline out already!")

I almost - almost - feel sorry for George as the walls close in on him, but then I remember that he'd see an innocent woman be imprisoned and all the trauma that will cause.

I can do without being preached at by TA, and they do it so badly anyway. And it would be superfluous- anyone who doesn’t know by now must have been living under a rock, which is a very low-risk environment ( although rickets).

But now you mention it, I’m surprised the smug git Ben didn’t seize the opportunity to lecture George.

I suspect he'd be prosecuted for perverting the course of justice if nowt else. The sentencing guidelines would indicate a high level of culpability and a high level of harm, which carries a custodial sentence. Whether it would be suspended because he's of previous good character (as far as the law is concerned, much as we know he's been an obnoxious little shit for years, even if he does seem to have grown out of it somewhat) would remain to be seen.

Either way I think there'll be a hiatus for George's character, either because he's in prison and there'll be third party references to him ("Where's Emma?" "Oh, she's visiting George today") or he'll have to leave the village for the shame. It won't do much for Emma's relentless kvetching about The Persecution of The Grundys either.

Then we need a scene with Chris and Susan:
Neil: Tell your mother what you've just told me.
Susan: What are you saying Christiphurr? You can't possibly think George was behind the wheel?
Chris: I'm not saying anything mum. But if Alice wasn't driving then someone else was and that person had been drinking fruit cider - they left the bottle in the footwell.

👌👏👏👏👏

I thought they did and this was what it was about.

Wasn't it skin cancer that did for Siobhan? And living alone.

Are those the ones you get free with a coffee? They are not the best they don't even deserve to be called biscuits.

But George has just had a strop and refused to drink the cider. We know why but they don't so why would they connect it?

That would make more sense.