Archers thread #169: Denise rocks the boat in more than one way! Will Chris find a message in a cider bottle? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd have liked to have Harrison's behbe, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LikeTalkingToLassie and @BrightYellowDaffodil for title inspiration. Is this the end for Denise and John? It does seem odd to introduce John now if he's going to disappear. He has a lovely voice.

Over to you!

Satanic abuse concerns ;)

Probably not, but a decent, caring family might have second thoughts. If we're likening it to other medical conditions, then I wouldn't be in a rush to send a young child back to the solo care of a parent who had just come out of hospital. Yes, I'd be encouraging lots of time together, but not sole responsibility.

Yes, I'd be encouraging lots of time together, but not sole responsibility.

You'd have to be very careful, or Alice might just take that as a personal dig and use it as an excuse to go back on the sauce.

It's hard to know which way she'd take it. She was the one who voluntarily gave up Martha and said Chris should have her full time. She could go either way.

Might that indicate putting her daughter first. Suggesting if there were any problems / relapses she would act responsibly, and if she had any concerns in the first place perhaps leave Chris as prime carer in the short term.

Wasn’t giving up Martha a “I’m no good, people are better off without me” woe-fest?

Denise should tell Paul to eff off.

Much as I dislike Denise

Well, somebody definitely should! Surely Lily, famed for her subtlety when dealing with other people's business, could oblige?

I like the Hayward disaster in the making. It's not very subtly foreshadowed with Lily's insights and Oliver's breezy brushings off, but if a cut finger is only the start we can look forward to mega tantrums at non-appearance of edible forage, or mass poisoning because he doesn't know his ceps from his death caps.👌

I can only go by Alice’s words, when she gives her little daughter over to her dad. They seem pretty unambiguous and responsible to me.

“I think you should have Martha with you for the foreseeable, she needs a safe environment and right now that’s not with me”

Chris insists she would never put her in harms way, Alice points out he can not guarantee it. She says whatever this is a blip or a slip she needs to fix it.

For me, the highlight of tonight's episode was finding out that Ian is still working at GG. So that's one loose end tied up, sort of, although it doesn't explain what role he has now. Has he gone back to being head chef?

The low points were Alistair's surprise that Denise might feel some shame at having cheated on her husband and Lily's naive conviction that Vince will be able to instantly stop workplace bullying.

I was wondering if Milo's unpleasant behaviour to those he's teaching is intended to mirror the nastiness and bullying by professionals towards contestants in Strictly.

Oh... I always thought it was Lucy Benjamin as well. But Stella in my head always looked like Cindy Beale. Who Google tells me used to play a character called Stella in Corrie back in my Corrie watching days. So I am all sorts of confused now!

That whole Alistair Denise convo was 🤮.

And did Paul not think it even slightly strange that Denise was happy to be left and looked after by her boss when she'd just been crying? It's not like he's 7 and can 'run off to play while the grown ups sort out grown up stuff' nor is he unable to imagine relationships starting between hitherto unconnected people.

Iyswim

I also thought it was funny that Paul left Denise with Alistair, wonder what he will do when he finds out the truth, surprised John hasn't told him, after all his not a child.

Paul does act so childlike; I’m at a bit of a loss what age he’s meant to be from the way he talks and behaves.

Haha!

Denistaire and the abattoir bullying feel like such flimsy storylines in comparison with Alice and George. There's no depth to them - John finally introduced at the 11th hour in a bid to inject some outrage and assorted nonentities at the abattoir - a location which is too far off-stage for me to feel any connection to. At least the hen party organisation is coming out of the Terum - though it's so long since Tom or Natasha made an appearance it's difficult to imagine they'd even notice let alone raise any objections. And it's nice to have something going on in the Grey Gables kitchens after all this time. I like the idea of the temperamental chef bearing no resemblance to his on-screen persona. What is harder to believe is that GG after it's big relaunch now feels like such an amateurish operation run by a a semi-retired man who I thought had sold his stake and a work experience girl. I find it hard to visualise these days - I know it has a fancy cocktail bar where Tracey had her hen party before opening and that Ian didn't like the design of the new kitchen (which I think is now open to view??). We don't seem to go into the dining room anymore and I can't picture any of the suites or bedrooms (even after the Fallon and Harrison luggage mix up). The Archers seems to be so much more about people these days and less about place - the Tea room and Grey Gables now changed beyond recognition, Home Farm wiped from the map - thank goodness we still get a bit of change counting in the village shop and that The Bull has not had a refit. I miss the farmhouse kitchens, cottage gardens, outings to Lower Loxley and a shopping trip with lunch at Underwoods cafe. Where was that festival supposed to be where Lily and Paul were packing up their tent? Or the boating lake where Denistaire were floating around after their night of passion? It's all pop-up locations as a convenient backdrop rather than a spy hole into an imaginary world that is as familiar to us as a real place.

Think? the boating was Arkwright Lake, which the bird hide is near (2011) If you look at the picture of Arkwright Hall there seems to be a lake directly in front of the house, not sure if that was meant to be it.

From catching up 2010/11, story lines / characters do seem more rounded and integrated and a lot more farming content.

If he can’t tell the difference between ceps and Death caps, I wouldn’t trust him even to pick the runner beans!

Where mushrooms and Death caps have gills, ceps have pores - looks like sponge.

It would have been conceived and written before all that came to light, surely?

I’ve met one botanist, author of well acclaimed books, who in real life is totally dismissive of “the little people”. Most unpleasant guy, absolutely full of his own god-like status.

And another botanist, more academic, less well known, but more of an expert, who is totally sweet and encouraging to all aspiring botanists, no matter how stupid their questions,

The SW may have met the first

Indeed! We know that, but does he? Is he the expert he claims to be? We also know that so-called reality shows are anything but. He portrays himself as spontaneous but I bet there's as much spontaneity from him as there is genuine bonhomie. In a TV programme like that there will be gofers who prepare the ground for his 'forage' - just as in Bargain Hunt the prep team will have scanned the whole fair and picked out the bargains and prepared the stallholders before the stars happen upon their lucky finds.

It will be interesting to see if the SWs are more clued up on this aspect than they are on how hospitality businesses are run. (At least someone seems to have spent some time checking out Grigson's An Englishman's Flora.)😏

It will be rubbish for him when he finds out, and has to go back over all his memories and re-interpret them.

Something taught me by my first partner. It’s not the unfaithfulness that gets you, it’s that the foundations of your understanding of the world are rocked. Coming just after Etienne, Paul is going to have a rough time. He may be an irritating tit, but he doesn’t have a malicious bone in his body. He doesn’t deserve this.

At least someone seems to have spent some time checking out Grigson's An Englishman's Flora. Is that the source of the twee names no-one else has heard of?