Archers thread #169: Denise rocks the boat in more than one way! Will Chris find a message in a cider bottle? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd have liked to have Harrison's behbe, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LikeTalkingToLassie and @BrightYellowDaffodil for title inspiration. Is this the end for Denise and John? It does seem odd to introduce John now if he's going to disappear. He has a lovely voice.

Over to you!

I thought she was at nursery but it’s clearly only open 10-3. I’m not surprised Alice went back to the booze if she was managing that and a full time job

Arf @Heronwatcher - I think she'd be best off with Kate farming her out to Uncle Jakob,. who would take no nonsense!

Back to the Archers, did Adam plant some cherry trees quite a few years ago?

He did but I think they might now be no more.

Didn't Stella give them the chop? And Adam eventually and reluctantly agreed she was right?

Yes that’s right - he linked them to his mum so was emotionally attached and was upset Brian would get rid

Everyone keeps mentioning Martha’s epic tantrums. Hardly surprising if she’s being passed from pillar to post on a daily basis. The lack of routine must be so confusing not to mention all the different carer’s rules. Susan mollified her with a lolly today but I thought Chris was very particular about her not having too much sugar. God knows what life lessons she is picking up from Aunty Kate.

If FT nursery is not an option for whatever reason I think Brian should employ a nanny for her. Someone consistent who will take over for set hours every day.

@Eastie77Returns I agree, a nanny or a childminder would be much better and I am sure that someone could find the cash on a short term basis (Brian still has the proceeds of the sale of the Home Farm house having inexplicably decided not to buy a new place). Alice’s house is also empty so Chris could even think about living there for a bit whilst Alice is in rehab- obviously once he’d swept the place for bottles- and the childminder could do wrap around care whilst Chris is at work (I think it’s meant to be bigger than Chris’ flat above the shop and also has a garden). Surely a much better solution?

It’s baffling that childcare is suddenly now such a big problem for so much of the time if Alice was at the stables full time: I think I said so before. Obviously it’s to cement Martha’s status as a Poor Little Mite (taking on the slightly soggy mantle from Poppy) and emphasise the harm arising from Chappaquiddick-on-Am, but it’s very tedious.

"Bits I cut off my garden" - can I enter this for the Flower and Produce Show??

Oooo good thoughts.

Could get witless silence in to precisely age the fracture by bone regrowth

Alices car was obviously fancy Nancy from George’s muchus covetus, so perhaps it automatically sets up and stores individual seat settings for each unique bum print, including time last used

@Gonners I agree, Jakob would probably be one of the more stable options- he might have some enlightened Scandinavian ideas on child rearing like a true latte-papa! He could start a crèche for all of the local offspring as I also seem to remember poor Rosie being kept in Jill’s Aga warming oven for years before she was thankfully old enough to start school.

Witless Silence

Soldier's woundwort is another name for yarrow. Billy's buttons would not usually get you mallow though - that's not to say it isn't used I certainly areas. The seed heads are buttony in shape. I can't remember the other names.

Even if he looked stuff up in books, they will tell you the common names too. And if I were showing someone wildflowers, I'd tell them all the names I knew, as they might know one of them.

My mother was quite insistent we learnt the botanical names of things, as the common names can change as you move places.

theres also an implication that Alice was taking on a lot more of the childcare given how badly Chris is managing.

or are the sw giving us a nice little lesson in how mothers should know their place is to be responsible for their children and ultimately any bad behaviour from them is their mothers fault? Haven’t phrased what I mean very well

So when Alice comes back from re-hab and its worked 🥳🍾she can have Martha back?, well thats what I got from Susan. I wouldnt let Alice near a 3 year old let alone be responsible for her for a good few years. No wonder Marthas weepy being pushed from piller to post. She should have some sort of normality ,poor kid.
It makes me laugh the reverence held for so called celebrity chefs they are all just cooking food and charging the earth for it. I would like to go foraging but with someone who really knows about all the plants and mushrooms, dont want to come back with a death cap. And we just know that Fallon is going to get into trouble because of the hen party. Why dosnt she just say no to Chelsea and tell her to shut the fxxk up., I know I would.

@Alwaysdieting im not sure I follow you, Chris and Alice co-parent Martha, so why wouldn’t she ‘have Martha back’ when she gets back from rehab? Alcoholism is a condition, if she is in recovery then of course she would be able to continue being a parent. Is that what you meant?

I think it’s more that Alice appears to do a hell of a lot of the childcare and when she is out of rehab is it reasonable for her to be doing that or does it risk her recovery/marthas safety. Unfortunately rehab is not a magic cure and she is likely to still need to focus on recovery when she is home

Absolutely @Bruisername - she does seem to have borne the brunt of childcare, especially if you consider that she didn’t really want kids only a few years ago. I realise that the SW don’t have Jenny to fall back on to organise childcare etc from the Aldridge side but it’s very heavy handed about how much of a burden she is placing on Chris and his family etc.

It’s also very true that rehab doesn’t fix someone, but Alice has been (by all accounts) a good/great mother when not drinking, so there is no reason for anyone to cast doubt on that. My issue is with previous poster saying she wouldn’t let her ‘be near a 3 year old for a good few years’ (paraphrased) which I find really naive.

Yes it’s interesting seeing all the replies, since rehab last time Alice has had to manage (nearly?) full time work in a new job including a nasty incident for which she was blamed, the loss of a beloved parent and subsequent family fallout as well as dealing with most of the childcare for a very young child. I think everyone blames chinless Harry for her relapse- and he did seem to be the last straw- but it’s not actually that surprising that she’s fallen off the wagon. Would be nice if someone could maybe comment on that!

@Alwaysdieting agree, the hen night has building disaster all over it- my prediction is that Natasha will find out and be very annoyed because there’s bound to be something in Fallon’s contract about it. Doesn’t sound like it’s going to make her a millionaire either, Pip said they had a tight budget and there are only 10 of them.

Not niave thankyou. Just sensible considering its not the first time Alice has been to rehab. Nobody can keep an eye on Alice 24/7 when she gets back so why would you trust her not to drink around Martha when she must have been doing that for a time before. Dont forget all the praise she was getting being a good mother considering, then she falls off the wagon,you could not trust her with a child if she is so easy set off, and whos to say she wasnt drinking all along even before Harry turned up no matter how good she was at covering it. How many times had she gone and sat in the car with her bottle of vodka thinking that was a sensable thing to do. How many times did she fall asleep on the sofa dead to the world while looking after Martha ? Nobody knows but im sure if you want to drink you will.

I agree to an extent. Alice needs to swallow her pride and recognise that she has an amazing support network to lean on for her daughters sake

perhaps Kate could move in next door

@Alwaysdieting you have a very limited understanding of addiction.

@Bruisername i love Kate as a character but what a wish for anyone! Although the combination of her and Jakob is great for child care - another reason why the dramatics about Martha’s childcare makes no sense, as Kate would be excellent in that situation.

@Heronwatcher you’re right that Harry has been pegged as the catalyst for all of this drama, with v little recognition of the other things going on for Alice (struggling with having a child, parental death, long term family trauma, career issues, absorbed childhood sibling politics, marriage breakdown) that have contributed to this both over time and in the last relapse. That’s super lazy script writing. I wonder if it was a creative choice though to give a name and a face to her relapse this time around. In reality it’s very unlikely that a short term relationship would have had the impact it has had; it’s of course hard to portray addiction via radio though so I do get that it was needed for plot reasons.

…but, it’s a drama, and not real life, and as I have said before I’m totally here for the Carter-Archers drama in 30 years when both Rosie and Martha are my age. Who knows what Henry will be up to.

@Leftshark. And I hope it stays that way.

Oh, thank you! I wasn’t looking forward to the task of re-listening so I could look them up. But there was another twee name for mallow which I was very suspicious of.

Scientific names also tell you what things are related to, unlike, for example rue (a herb in the same family as oranges), goats rue (pea/bean family), meadow rue (buttercup family) and wall rue (a fern, so-not even a flowering plant)

Confession: When I was about 17 I went walking in the countryside with a boyfriend and told him all the folk names of the wildflowers. I made them all up.