Archers thread #168: Near to the Maddening Crowd? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

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For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @OverArmour for the title suggestion!

Over to you.

I think that would be unlikely that the message would pop up.

it feels like George will crack under pressure - perhaps that will be Alice going to him and asking exactly what happened

maybe armed with the fruit cider evidence

Alastair having dashcam is a good shout. I may be remembering wrong but they saw the headlights as it went over so they would have been travelling in the same direction as Alice? If so, I am very surprised alastair and Denise hadn’t seen Alice’s car and done a quick check of occupants.

The trouble is that there really isn't any reason for anyone to be looking for it. The only person who knows that it ever existed at all is George, and he has absolutely no motive to tell anyone about it.

I can't think how they'd bring the voice message back into play but do feel they might. It seems too big a plot incident not to do more with it.

I think they used it to create immediate suspense on 6th/7th, because the listeners knew about its existence, but then deleted it at both ends on 8th just so it wouldn't be a factor in any longer-term considerations.

If they start investigating and asking questions about George, fruit cider etc. and establish a link, might be able to request messages (if possible). Although in Wagatha trial, phone went to “Davey Jones’ locker“ supposedly, so nothing retrieved.

phone companies don’t keep recordings of voicemails so even if they found evidence it’s long gone and easily explained away by George

I agree it was used for short term suspense

If they started investigating a very improbable possibility, that the drunk in the driving seat of a car which had been involved in an accident had not in fact been driving because she says she couldn't have been because she would never do a thing like that, then they might possibly look for another possible driver. But they really have very little reason to look for anything beyond the case they already have, which looks pretty solid.

I think that’s the problem - everyone at the scene was dealing with the car in river - no one questioned how George knew to run off for example or even questioned if there was another car involved they should check on

i’m sure alastair and Denise would have seen something. Eg the drivers door wide open - query why?

did George put the seatbelt on?

My favourite tinned abomination was ravioli Mine was Frey Bentos Steak and Kidney pie, with slimy pastry, gravy and delicious bits of kidney. I couldnt care about the steak

Reply to post from end of last thread re Alcohol absorption and detection…

“As for going for a run!”
You will see from your own link that it is impossible to be totally prescriptive about alcohol absorption by the body because of variables involved, for example being young and fit, and yes exercise has been shown to give a small increase in the rate of absorption. Also would allow more time for alcohol to be absorbed and is believed to negate some of the serious detrimental effects of alcohol on the body. Also help clear her head.

As for your link! ;)
It actually seems to support my original comment ….
“possibly clear on a breathalyser after 12 (hours)”

You stated …
“not clear to drive home/work in the morning”
(Note you will see from your link that you have quoted the units for a 1 litre bottle rather then the significantly smaller 70cl bottle)

I think you missed this essential bit from your link …
How long is alcohol detectable in your system?
The vast majority of these tests must be conducted within 24 hours after alcohol was consumed. Otherwise, they will be unable to detect alcohol in your system.
Below, we list the various amounts of time each of these tests must be conducted in order to indicate a positive reading for alcohol:

• Urine – 24-96 hours
• Blood – 12-24 hours
• Breath – 12-24 hours
• Saliva – 12-24 hours
• Sweat – 1-4 weeks
• Hair – 3 months+

(So as I said possibly clear after 12 hours, certainly indicates not possible to definitely say “not clear to drive … in the morning” Note these are timescales to detect alcohol at all, so potentially at residual levels before then. If not detectable or not over the limit, then legally clear to drive)

I think she went in the shop as it was closing, isn’t the shop staffed by volunteers. If so imagine it closes pretty early. Joy was going to her concert sometime after work.

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echt · Yesterday 23:10

She drank a bottle of vodka !!!. So not clear to drive home/work in the morning.
I'm amazed she didn't die from alcohol poisoning.

40 hours for it to clear her system
https://www.rehab-recovery.co.uk/articles/how-long-does-alcohol-stay-in-your-system/#

The shop was trying to close, and she insisted on buying the drink when it was out of hours.

As for going for a run!

—————————————-
VoxPop · Yesterday 22:43

I think it suggests it is far more likely to than not

She Would be clear on a blood test after 6 hours and possibly clear on a breathalyser after 12, especially if she went for a run first. Assume she knocked the drink straight back it was quite early as the shop was open. So very possibly clear next morning.

—————————————————-

Would the obvious explanation not be that George put the fruit cider down when he "checked on Alice" and then forgot to pick it up?

Yes - but I think he is crumbling so won’t come up with an excuse

But the very impossible possibility is the actuality.

it would be her defence looking into it, as well presumably as her family and friends who trust her enough to believe there may be something in it. Chris seemed to find it difficult to believe she did it.

I can see how pasta can be sweet - like rice or pastry or bread, it depends what goes with it yhat makes it sweet or savory. But from what Fallon was saying, there was no actual pasta in the dish, so calling it lasagne just because it's got layers is just wrong.

as well presumably as her family and friends who trust her enough to believe there may be something in it
Chris might have been a bit surprised by the cider, but I doubt her family and friends will believe there’s anything in it: pleading not guilty will be seen as just another bad decision made by Alice, the annoying, embarrassing drunk and all round bleedin’ liability.

That would be the negative view RS, unless you don’t count the truth as positive.

From what everyone else in the village knows (except George of course) there is no reason to suspect anything happened other than what seemed to have happened

based on past experience it does seem likely it was Alice and given the circumstance no one has any reason to suspect any one else could possibly have been driving. Even those with doubts (Chris) haven’t suggested another scenario as it would be considered too out there

It would seem odd to me that all deleted messages would be automatically backed-up unless you had somehow set your phone to do this. If this is the case, then they're gonna need a bigger cloud!

I think the message was just to keep us guessing what would happen when will heard it - and then when deleted wondering how George will be found out now

perhaps if they get Alastair to stand in a puddle he will have a flashback and remember he didn’t see anyone in the drivers seat of the other car

I’m not particularly bothered by ‘positive’ vs ‘negative’. Within the terms of the situation that has been set up, there’s no reason for them to believe her that I can see; and Adam clearly wasn’t convinced by the glove-box defence

And the problem with alcoholics is that they are very good at excuses. Did she say ‘I would never hold the baby if I’d had a drink’ or ‘I would never throw a brick through the shop window’. Difference is she had witnesses.

But where did George put the cider while he was being a hero and rescuing Fallon from the river. Would it be believable for him to say he put it down on the riverbank while he plunged into the Am and that he then picked it up and took it with him when he went to check on Alice's car and put it in the footwell? I don't think so.

I doubt they’ll bring the message back up again either, but the only way I can imagine it would be, and it would be clunky, would be if Will needed to go back and find an old message for some reason and found that one in his deleted ones. Although, the fact they’re showing George having some type of conscience about it makes me think that he will own up under pressure. Somehow, it would be more satisfying if he didn’t and got caught though.

The way they had him behaving with Hannah was really bad. He’s pretty inconsistent as a character - although well played by the actor with the scripts he’s given.

He saw the accident - rushed to check Alice and then saw the car was going over the bridge so called for help. After helping with car he then remembered Alice and rushed back to make sure she was ok

I'm sure George and Alastair met on the bridge as George finished the 999 call so I don’t understand how Alastair didn’t notice her car and neither did Denise

I think his inconsistency of character is due to his youth