Archers thread #168: Near to the Maddening Crowd? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to hear more of Harrison's strange little moaning noises, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @OverArmour for the title suggestion!

Over to you.

Macaroni pudding, which is rice pudding but made with macaroni was a standard pudding when I was a child in the 60s. At that time it was probably the more common way to eat pasta although, having lived abroad, my Mum made a sort of spaghetti bolognaise and also macaroni cheese too.

More like a cheesecake then.

Thought to come from a latin word for cooking pot, but an alternative hypothesis is that it’s from a greek word for a type of flat bread.

Perverting the course if justice being the most serious because it strikes at the fundamentals of a civilised society bound by law

When I was growing up (born in the early 60s) we often had macaroni cheese, which my Mum made from scratch. Less often, macaroni pudding (from a tin) and spaghetti hoops (ditto). You could also get spaghetti strands in tomato sauce or 'bolognese' sauce in a tin. I think we must have had that occasionally too. We had a non-tinned but probably still very unauthentic version of spag bol at school, with really long strands of spaghetti, which I liked. Probably first had lasagne at an Italian restaurant. We often went to one for birthday meals.

That's why I said 30 years. Before that they weren't nearly as bad - Alf was the criminal, and even Joe who was a bit of a chancer (not as bad as Walter Gabriel) and an intermittent poacher, tried to keep 'respectable' as befitted a Methodist (he didn't really approve of 'church' as opposed to 'chapel', even if he did drink rather more than some Methodists. Clarrie, as befitted Jethro Larkin's daughter, was intelligent and capable (fairly fluent in French, understood electrics), cleanly and hardworking and took very little nonsense from Joe or Eddie - like Joe's late wife Susan.

Then we got the present setup, where they're working class so have to be dishonest and dirty and stupid, because that's what povvos are like.

I agree that the portrayal of the Grundys as feckless and dishonest is grating. Yes, they are written to make it appear that they are the authors of their own misfortune because they cut corners, etc. However, at the same time we expected to believe that Kate suddenly became a business guru when she set up Spiritual Home on a whim and that she followed all the rules.

It never rang true to me - although I recognise that Kate has recently started to be more sensible (as evidenced by her reaction on the night of the Great Bridge Disaster).

In fact it was the unbelievable nature of the initial Spiritual Home SL that first made me start to worry that the SW no longer knew the characters as well as I did!

Thanks @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g!

Just catching up on the last thread, could somebody explain the fruit cider reference to me please? And how that might impact Alice remembering / George being found out?

Also, I agree that Kate seems to have grown up a bit. I’m still annoyed that they never seem to be any great realisation from her about what she did to her mum with Spiritual Home and then having to sell the house. I know it was Brine‘s fault too, but that seemed to be next level selfishness, and it was never really addressed even after Jenny died. I was expecting some guilt but I guess that’s not Kate!

Lockshen pudding. Just sayin’.

Was there spaghetti in a can with sausages in it too, or am I making that up? I have memories of eating it cold straight from the can!

Just catching up on the last thread, could somebody explain the fruit cider reference to me please? And how that might impact Alice remembering / George being found out?

On the day of The Ambridge Bridge Disaster, George was going to a party. He went into the shop but realised he could only afford fruit cider, not the beer he wanted. He havered on about it for ages with Joy, trying to wheedle a discount, but she had the measure of him. He bought the fruit cider to take to the party.

Later he was returning from the party with his cider when he came across Alice in her car drunk and decided to drive her home, with the Am-related consequences. He left the cider in her car and in the aftermath neither Alice or Chris (with whom she was discussing it) could work out how it got there. Chris knew she wouldn’t have bought it as it wasn’t something she’d drink (and let’s face it, if you want to get smashed you don’t want cider at a few %, you want spirits which is why Alice had vodka).

Alice remembering this might make her also remember George driving, although I doubt anyone would believe someone who a) is an alcoholic and b) has form for alcohol-related crimes in the shape of a brick through the village shop window.

However Joy remembering selling George the cider would place him in the vehicle prior to the crash.

When I was growing up in the late 50s/early 60s my parents were both adventurous eaters and cooks. We used to eat in Chinese and Indian restaurants - the latter considered particularly brave at the time - and when my friends came round I used to be horribly embarrassed that we ate things they considered weird, like lasagne and, worst of all, home made curries. At the time a lot of the population of all classes still considered garlic to be the Devil's work and olive oil was quite literally something you bought in tiny bottles from the chemist and kept in the medicine cabinet for earache.

My mum is French and even in the 90s a lot of dinners were met by horror by my friends!!

I don't remember that, but you can even now get tins of baked beans with sausages. I tried this in adult life and found them a sad disappointment. We used to have tinned meatballs and Smash as easy meals when we went on our super-cheapy self-catering holidays back in the 1960s and early 1970s. My favourite tinned abomination was ravioli, which we often had at school, always with flabby tinned green beans and roast potatoes, followed by steamed jam roll. (It's really no wonder I don't have the BMI the NHS would like me to.)

Thank you! I think I must’ve missed a whole episode!

Macaroni pudding is delicious. My mother made it through the 1960s, 70s and 80s.

Oh yes to all of that! Ravioli in a can!

There is a robot in my head that looks like Zippy from
The Rainbows singing ‘Smash makes mash’ now. I have a strange craving for the onion flavour one.

My favourite advert of all time. 'They peel them with their metal knives!'

So I went back and found the episode where Alice mentioned the fruit cider, and I had actually listened to it, but completely missed the import. I wonder whether that’s why they are going to a hearing, whether it will be mentioned then and afterwards Joy will have the realisation? When it’s technically too late if Alice goes to prison. Also, is it only women with children that go to prison in the Archers? Aside from Freddy I suppose.

But Joy isn’t tech savvy and didn’t realise it backed up automatically to the cloud it’s not security cam footage we need backed up to the cloud, but phone messages. George made a call to William to say he’d found Alice passed out drunk and was driving her home. He then secretly deleted the message from Will’s phone and his own phone ended up in the Am. I still have hope that message is somehow recoverable (Silent Witness style) or will somehow be backed up to a cloud on Will’s phone.

OverArmour
Also, is it only women with children that go to prison in the Archers?

Tom Forrest was on remand for weeks when he was charged with manslaughter.
Alf Grundy has been in and out of prison.
Clive Horrobin ditto.
And Keith Horrobin has been inside.
Matt went to prison.
Darrell was in prison when Elona was introduced into the programme.
Snatch Foster went to prison (his child Bruno was looked after by Caroline and Oliver).

Clearly the Doctor Who finale distracted me from this new thread.

Tinned ravioli was a revelation! I’m sure I first encountered it on Blue Peter - like cat flaps, and K9.

I am clearly wrong! Thank you!

Good call, had completely forgotten about that message, that we thought would be the real giveaway at the time.

Total game changer if anyone not willing to cover it up finds it.