Archers thread #167: Welcome to Ambridge, the world capital of loose ends! Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like The Archers to be wall to wall election conversations for the next month, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Over to you!

Have to say I’m mildly distressed at all the dislike of Lily!

And really quite at the hostility towards both Paul and Denise. To my ears Paul has great potential as a long term character. I love the fact they’ve slotted him in amongst the aristocrats of the village, (as @UnintentionalArcher observes) it gives so much scope. I don’t think the affair is well written at all but I like Denise as part of the Ambridge story - and can only imagine she’s often absent because the actress has lots of other work.

I don’t mind Paul but don’t like the way they seem to be referring g to the stereotypical gay man handbook when writing him

lily is being written to be unlikeable afaic and that seems to be the direction the actress has been given!!

I don't get any vibes at all from Oliver and Lillian - it just felt like an opportunity to compare with downfall of The Stables with the demise of Grey Gables. The Stables I can understand - Shula has waltzed off and left her business in the hands of someone who has disappeared (Alice) and Lilian who we all know has other businesses to run (even though we rarely hear her doing that these days). I'm slightly mystified by what's happening at Grey Gables. It's just had a massive makeover by its mysterious "New Owners" (who we've never actually heard from) and yet Oliver - who supposedly sold it because he couldn't cope anymore - is still at the helm assisted only by Roy of the Rotas and security guard Mick. It's a leap too far to expect us to believe that a country house hotel given a complete makeover wouldn't have a competent team of staff to support its relaunch. And instead of these "incidental locations" (as I like to think of them) being held up by the structure of farms and agricultural land that surround them, we are instead supposed to be on the edge of our seats for flimsy, slightly seedy plot about a minor character and his never-before-mentioned partner. It increasingly feels like The Archers is being written for people who don't actually listen to The Archers.

"Roy of the Rotas"

😆

Étienne, @LillianGish? I think he has been mentioned a couple of times before - always in the context of being dull. Josh thinks he’s a ridiculous bf for Paul. He accompanied Paul to some Ambridge gathering recently, although unvoiced. Since he came into narrative existence at the time Paul and Ruairi encountered each other I’ve always assumed his role is essentially ‘Not Ruairi’ - soon to be replaced and a preamble to the more important relationship that’s coming.

Paul and Ruairi were clearly attracted to each other - Paul chatted about it with Josh but I think perceived Ruairi as a bit of a loose cannon. Also too young and immature, so he’s kind of avoiding him whilst … yearning might be too strong, don’t know.

But unless my ears are wrong, the SWs have sown the seeds for a significant relationship in the future.

‘so he’s kind of avoiding him by emphasising his relationship with Étienne … ‘

I what I meant to say.

The father can make the submission if the mother dies, in the Scottish version. Given the limited proof / verification required it is also open to abuse. Mothers could also use either system abusively if they too are as divisive as it is suggested some fathers could be.

Personally although I totally agree that the principle of my body my choice is inviolable (although perhaps no so much as we may think as across the majority of Europe abortion is only generally available up to 12 weeks) I think where the father knows / is in an established relationship, then given it is equally his developing child, he should if possible be allowed his say, if it can be done in a calm and balanced manner, without badgering. Of course still absolutely the mother’s decision as it is her body.

I think the type of man who begs his partner to consider not aborting their developing child is on balance likely to be less abusive and divisive and more caring than the man who tries to force his partner against her will to abort their child, to avoid parental responsibility. But of course the effect of either on the mother can be harmful.

I do feel for men who have to live with having no say whatsoever and no way to protect their developing child from destruction. We need to recognise there are caring compassionate people of both sexes and also the reverse. To have no control in something that sits at the core of our existence, must be excruciating for some, even more so when they feel it is their responsibility to support their partner regardless of their own feelings.

In our search for equality we should not seek to diminish others or judge them as groups or by the lowest common denominator of their type, or punish them for a past where the whole world was very different.

I’ve always assumed his role is essentially ‘Not Ruairi’ - soon to be replaced and a preamble to the more important relationship that’s coming I hope you are right @TottersDeterminedlyTowardsThePollingStation. I know Paul and I know Ruari so I could take some interest in a relationship between these too. Some random-silent-appearance-and-casual-name-drop is of limited interest and a waste of valuable listening time which could be spent developing more interesting plots. I feel exactly the same about Denise's husband which is why I can't get worked up about her affair with Alistair.

Yes @TherapistInATabard I got those vibes too. And I also LOATHE Lily, she's the very epitome of privilege. So juvenile last night.

I'd totally missed Etienne. I assumed he was some long long cousin or something until the last scene!! Mustn't have been paying attention.

That was dire.

I will lose the will to live if there is much more of this drivel

Crying in his room🙄. It’s a very teenage house. And the discussion ‘should we ask him outright?’ - what kind of friends are they? And why would Lillian talk to Josh? It’s all very bizarre to create a conversation between Lily and Josh where they angst about how to do basic friendship

and what was that conversation between Emma and George that dragged out. Wouldn’t you naturally start with the wanting to buy him?

(put this on wrong thread!)

Ambridge now has SEX PEOPLE!

And why would Lillian talk to Josh?

And why does Fagash think the veterinary nurse needed to know Dopey Oliver isn't going to sue her?

What do you mean by "allowed his say"

There's nothing in law which prevents his saying what he wants and fortunately there's nothing in law which obliges the pregnant woman to take any account of it.

Are you suggesting some sort of compulsory counselling? Because otherwise "allowed his say" is meaningless.

Oh and I think the assumption about the type of man who begs his partner to do something she doesn't want to is going to be a good guy is misplaced.

I love Josh and his dry comments. You can tell Lily gets on his nerves, as she absolutely would in real life. TBH I don’t know how anyone could cope with living with both Lily and Paul.

So is Meg with the kind eyes
(a) animal welfare
(b) rival influencer
(c) journo
(d) conduit for strangles...?

E) plot device to show how mercenary the grundys are?
f) plot device to create a fallout within the grundy clan

g) something to do with Markie the Meat Thief (seems unlikely but you never know! It could all go a bit Titus Andronicus for Eddie)

It actually came from your quoted comment
“You see from time to time men who think they should have any say in this matter.”
So I imagine it is as meaningful as that

So no I am not suggesting compulsory counselling and I assumed that was not what you were talking about either. It clearly came over to me from your comment and context that it was your opinion that men should have no say whatsoever in the matter of their own developing pre birth child being aborted, when they did not want that.

I thought this harsh and did not agree. I thought many deserved a voice so long as it was done with sensitivity and I repeatedly stressed that it was the woman’s body and her right to decide.

As far as misplaced, I don’t think I assumed “the type of man who begs his partner to do something she doesn’t want to is going to be a good guy” as you suggest.

in fact I said “begs his partner to consider”
which is a little different, more again about having his opinions heard

I also set the bar pretty low by saying “is on balance” [so not an absolute]

”likely to be” [again reinforcing not an absolute]

“less abusive and divisive and more caring than the man who tries to force his partner against her will to abort their child, to avoid parental responsibility”

In fact I set the comparative bar so low there it might be considered damming with faint praise. So not saying he is a good guy, nor even necessarily better than the lowlife that would try to force their partner against her will to abort their child, to avoid his parental responsibility.

Just to make sure of balance, I also point out
“But of course the effect of either on the mother can be harmful.”

So the Grundys talking all over each other and dragging the storyline out. So bloody annoying 😤.
I hope they sell Bartleby so he can have a nice life, however long, instead of being dragged out for everyone to pet,and pay £30 for the privilege.who whould profit from the £1500 anyway?.
One of the worse episodes to be fair. I wonder sometimes if it worth listening to with my morning coffee anymore.

Lily is incredibly annoying but better acted than Pip. I like Josh. Angus Imrie does a good job with what he's given. Could not care less about Etienne, whose name I don't even remember hearing before this week.

Oh yes. I had been wondering if she was wanting to buy him for meat.

Bartleby Burgers.

(The price she offered is too high for meat and he's too full of drugs to be suitable for human consumption but one never knows with the SWs)

Bartleby burgers!😳
Lip curling, bad tempered, flirty, farty Bartleby selling for £1500 - I'd buy him at twice that😄
Thinking for SL purposes, Meg is an influencer who'll make a fortune from him...

Why was Lily telling her FLATMATE to socially distance?! Bizarre. I hope this Lily/Josh/Paul storyline dies a quick death...