Archers thread #166: Choppy waters in Ambridge! Look out for the red flags and discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd love to be married to Harrison, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Another thread started in great haste, mid-packing! Over to you.

Thank you for your post @Trivium4all .

I'm always in two minds over the nostalgia thing. The "Blitz Spirit" that we celebrate over here wasn't what we think it was. The idea that everyone cheerfully pulled together, sitting on bombed out ruins with a cup of tea while singing "Roll Out the Barrell" and cocking a snook to the bombers is a fantasy. Sure, there were stories of people's heroism or kindness, but the truth was people didn't have any other option but to just put up with it all. There was also hell of a lot of crime in terms of looting but also a "Ripper" who used the blackouts to rape and murder women in London*

So the bunting-and-victory-rolls events sometimes seem a bit tone deaf and I wonder what people who actually lived through the war feel about them. That said, I've been to some either as a guest or a performer and they've been great "historical" events. I do think they need to be taken with a big pinch of salt and a bit more respect should be paid to the reality.

(*I recommend Hallie Ruebenhold's excellent podcast "Bad Women" on the subject.)

I do think that when people have D day partys its more to celebrate and remember.
"Least we forget".
My dad was in the London Irish regiment and got shot in the neck and leg, came home married my mum and had us 9 kids. He would love a celebration im sure if he was still with us. I dont remember him saying anything bad about the Germans, but then he didnt talk about the war really.

My mother, who is still going strong, was 10 when WW2 started and 16 when it ended. Apart from a brief spell as evacuees with an abusive family (so bad their parents took them home), she and her siblings spent the entire war in SE London.
She recalls two of her soldier uncles arriving at their house after escaping from Dunkirk, before setting off for their own homes. I grew up on a diet of stories about the blackout, the Blitz, and life in an air raid shelter, many very funny. She was a day girl at a convent in Blackheath and on D Day there were no lessons and the whole school spent the day in the hall listening to the radio in a state of great excitement that the war might soon be over. Every hour or so they all stood up and the nuns led them singing God Save the King and the Marseillaise.
In fact my mother's war was not over because 6 months later, just before Christmas 1944, a V2 bomb fell in their garden early one morning and completely destroyed their house. My mother and her siblings were in bed at the time and woke up in the dark to find they had been blown into the street. My grandmother, who had been in the kitchen, was buried under the house with the dog. The dog died after a few hours but my grandmother was dug out, badly injured, after 6 hours and spent 9 months in a military hospital having skin grafts for her burns. She was allowed out briefly on VE Day and her children took up to central London in a wheelchair on a train in the guard's van to join the celebrations. She lived to a ripe old age.
My mother enjoys the various war celebrations (although she can't stand Vera Lynn). After the war her brother married a German woman who was warmly welcomed into the family. They were an extraordinarily resilient generation and deserve to be remembered IMO.

If my own daughter can’t have Freddie then the glass slipper goes to Chelsea. He’ll be lucky to have her!

@Godesstobe , if nothing else, the Ambridge Hall D-Day has given us a glimpse of your family's experience of WWII. Thanks. It sounds fascinating.

If TheBabyBell gets Freddie, can I have Oliver?
We'd have to live at Flapjack Heights, I don't fancy sharing with the Grundys. Hmm, maybe Brian then, or Jim. I'd have to be a silent, or have only the occasional fleeting role. Maybe I could be flung by the lovely Leonard.

To the smartarse who suggested Bert Horrobin for me, wash yer mouth out.

Our local riding school had an outbreak of strangles. My daughter went for riding lessons once a week. The owners were outraged when I cancelled her lessons for the duration but I had my own horse on a livery yard owned by a girl who competed in dressage. I couldn’t risk carrying the disease back and I wasn’t prepared to strip off and decontaminate myself after every lesson.

The riding school we used stopped completely until the strangles was all clear and then they had a phased return and at first it was just clients whose families didn't have their own horses. It nearly bankrupted them.

Some brilliant WWII stories coming out on this thread, thanks for sharing them!

I too am jaded by the general glorification of WWII by us Brits. Near me there are several D Day events happening that sound very similar to what's happening in Ambridge, it's similar online and on TV, and I'm fed up of the rose-tinted sentiment of "oh didn't we have a lovely old time eating potato peelings in a pie, digging for victory and showing the Germans what for!" - whilst I'm sure there was cheer it must also have been terribly distressing for a great many people, for a great many different reasons. My grandfather served and was one of a great many men who wouldn't talk about what they saw for the rest of their life.

I also think it lulls everyone from everyday civilians to politicians into this weird sense of invincibility - "we won WWII, so we can beat anybody in any way at any time!" - without acknowledging the changing face of war (see in particular modern weapons and tactics in Ukraine and Gaza, but also decolonisation and changing political landscapes).

I visited the D day beaches in France a few years ago. They are huge beaches, there is still one of those floating docks on one. We visited the museums. The thought of all those men being slaughtered on those beautiful sandy beaches is horrific. We also visited the cemeteries in Bayeux, thousands and thousands of white headstones 😥.
my dad was in the Middle East, during the war, he never talked about it. His father was blown to bits in WW1 when my dad was 1, and never found, we visited the memorial at Cambrai.
maybe it's just me, but having jolly parties to commemorate events like this doesn't sit well with me.

The Normandy beaches are vanishing because the water-level is rising.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/frances-historic-d-day-beaches-threatened-by-rising-sea-levels/ar-BB1n8qDx

St Ursula's, @Godesstobe? There was a thread about that school quite recently. I have no personal experience of it but the daughter of a family we know went there and absolutely loved it (quarter of a century ago, I suppose).

My family's WW2 experiences are nothing out of the ordinary. My grandfather worked as a gardener for a wealthy family and when he was conscripted he lost his job and the family had to leave their tied cottage and move to the town where he was going to serve in the Fire Brigade. This was on the outskirts of Glasgow so he must have seen some awful sights, but he never talked about it and I never thought to ask him about it before he died.

My grandmother got an opportunity which I think she may have been sorry to lose at the end of the war - she took on a Prudential Insurance Company round, collecting premiums from local families every week, covering for an agent who had been called up. After the war Grandpa went back into private service and Granny never worked again.

My Mum has mentioned walking to school with her sister and if the Air Raid sirens went off they had to decide whether to run ahead to school or back home. Big responsibility for young kids. She was 7 when the war broke out.

My other grandfather should have been conscripted too, but was considered medically unfit. This came as a surprise to my grandmother who thought he was in good health. It may have been linked to his heavy drinking. I don't know if he served in the ARP or Home Guard or did any firewatching - I never met him and my father never spoke about him (he was an abusive drunk, Grandma left him). I don't think Edinburgh was subjected to as much bombing as Glasgow so my Dad's family were not as much affected by the war as my Mum's.

I have happy childhood memories of playing on the Normandy beaches. It’s a beautiful part of the world and should be seen as more than just a ww2 memorial!!

the only time my grandfather was ever emotional when he talked of his memories was when he talked about bringing back the pow from the far east. Sadly that battlefield is often underrepresented

My Dad was injured on a building site before he was old enough to enlist. When he did go to enlist the doctor who had treated him said ‘Sorry Pete, you ain’t going’. He never got over it and read every war book and watched every war film and documentary until his dying day when he was nearly 89. He was obsessed.

Friends’ dads who fought never talked about it.

Yes, St Ursula's at Blackheath

My mother was working in a factory in Coventry when the city was bombed.

My father was crippled (his chosen word: he denied to his dying day that he had been disabled, which he took as an insult) out in India during the war, and never walked properly again.

Funnily enough, neither of them entertained us children with jolly stories about what a great spirit there was during the war.... The only "war story" my mother ever told was that when the first bombs started to drop, a lot of the younger girls from the factory went outside without their safety helmets to see what was going on, and several of them were killed; this was recounted as a warning not to take idiotic risks and go against the advice of people who knew better than you did what was going on.

Enjoying reading about WW11 memories and info on strangles, 🤞for Bartleby and Champion.

Could the missing meat thief be the delivery driver Ellie, Jason's red-headed niece? 🤔

Oh. Topical "pre war" national service chat

Oh god the topical insert is so clunky. I think their listenership are old enough not to need history101

Ben and Chelsea are definitely happening

We’re all going to need hats!

🎊

My Granny's brother was killed six days after D Day over the English channel. He'd joined up in 1939 at the very start of the war. He was a sergeant in the RAF and was a rear gunner. The plane was on submarine patrol and it's assumed that they were shot down, only one crew member's body was found, washed up on the French shore. My granny missed her brother all of her long life, there was always a photo of him in his RAF uniform on the mantle piece. His name is on the RAF memorial at Runnymede.

That’s so sad. It’s easy to remember the heroics but so many lost their lives and so many lives were impacted by their loss. That’s what we should remember

I came across a very small war memorial in the middle of a wood once, entirely by happenstance. It was very moving. https://www.iwm.org.uk/memorials/item/memorial/31382

My nan was 9 on VE day and remembers being evacuated and one night her house was bombed during WWII. She lived near Birmingham and said the neighbourhood spirit looked after them when hers was the only bombed house. Her uncle was killed in the war and she talks about the sobs from her mum when she found out.

My other grandparents were slightly older and only met since my grandad was evacuated and my grandma cycled past him every day. Long story short they were married for 56 years. Neither really mentioned the war, they lost relatives but by the time I was born life had moved on. Like a PP said, they kind of had to just get on with it.

Probably a bit like we all did with covid (the nearest national crisis). I have noticed the increase in attendance at remembrance services since the late 90s. They almost died a death and now they're the biggest service of the year locally. Not sure if this is a national thing.

Anyway back to TA, please can they sort out the crash? Strangles is already boring, have the script writers put bio security on their bingo card this month? Freddie and the meat spells trouble... Off to listen.

Oh yes! That should have given me a clue