Archers thread #164: AmbridgEnders! An Everyday Story of Soapy Folk. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

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Thread thrown together in great haste in advance of tonight's episode. Who's in the Am? Is it George's fault? Is this the end for Alice? Over to you!

Placemarking (and rejoining thread after an absence of several months). Not enjoying Alice being tricked into thinking she was driving.

I think this is a definite possibility. I could see it failing and then Fallon deciding she wants a baby after all so they can write the happy ever after story for her and Harrison.

One question, does anyone know where the accident took place? Is the bridge in the village? If it is in a remote location why is no-one questioning why George happened to be there?

Pretty spot on IMO. Generally behaves like a vindictive sociopath with no loyalty.

In fairness he did apologise when he dragged Alice into the drivers seat ;) so may have some pangs of guilt. We also see a kindly side to him sometimes, but driven by his own particular values where self congratulation and interest always seem to dominate.

He seems very insecure at times. However I don’t think pariahisation [sic] of him on skin colour or genitalia configuration (or other deciders of maleness) are reasonable generic factors to demonise any group of individuals (earlier post referred to his white male privilege)

The Emma’s of the world have a battle on their hands. If George gets into trouble they will have to rely on legal aid and costly legal support.

Brian has already lined up his lawyer, ready to pay to get Alice off the hook.

But she didn’t so she didn’t exactly. She didn’t do anything wrong apart from getting very drunk. She didn’t break the law - what she might or might not have done if George hadn’t intervened is immaterial. He, on the other hand, broke any number of laws- the worst of which IMHO is the cover up he’s now embarking on in trying to bin the blame on Alice.
re. Fallon’s unwanted pregnancy, it isn’t beyond the realms of possibility that once the pregnancy hormones kick in followed by the rush of oxytocin during the birth she will feel quite differently once the baby is in her arms. She wouldn’t be the first reluctant mother to experience this (that’s why it’s significant that she is the reluctant parent not Harrison - reluctant fathers don’t get this helping hand from nature).

Couldn’t George be done for perverting the course of justice?

It's only a matter of time before George ends up embroiled in some attempt at a County Lines plotline. Maybe if he gets banged up for this

I’ve linked to the CPS guidance on that a few posts up, @TherapistInATabard. I would say so.

He's a bit old for that
They tend to use 12 or 13 year olds.

Brian has already lined up his lawyer, ready to pay to get Alice off the hook - she shouldn’t even be on the hook so thank goodness she has Brian in her corner (unlike Kate who is happy to believe the worst and ready to put the boot in).

Sorry didn’t mean to suggest that just extending the argument.

Agree with what you say above. Although very different being separated from your child because unjustly imprisoned.

The accident is of course v.complex. George thought he was doing her a favour and in his cack handed way dragged her across the car and drove off. Full of how kind he was being and enjoying driving the car.

Whereas all she wanted to do was be left alone to sleep it off.

In reality it was an unfortunate accident (although listening too it George could have easily stopped before the bridge). However in George’s mind he does not think it right he unfairly? gets the blame once again when he was just doing a good turn. Probably not even fully considering at the time the much graver consequences for Alice.

Yes that’s true. I was reflecting more on the social inequity around access to legal support. The George’s of this world are far less likely to get the information and representation they are entitled to.

Alice, ... growing up with extreme privilege...
Hardly. Privilege yes but not extreme privilege.

She didn't drive immediately after downing the bottle, but I find it hard to believe she planned to spend 24+ hours in the car. I know someone who lost his license for two years after being breathalyzed on the way into work - and the only times I've been breath checked were on routine crossroads police morning stops. There's a reason they do those (I'm assuming they happen in the UK).

I agree George is a stinker and has acted very badly here, and that Alice had not yet done anything illegal, but her position is ambiguous - under the influence in control of a deadly chunk of metal.

Will Will need to withdraw his investment from Ultimate Arboriculture to fund George's defence ( or is it too late for that)?
(Didn't have the time to think of an alternative to "Will Will".)

Don’t think they can just do random tests here and she deliberately put the key in the cubby to make it clear she did not intend to drive.

Presume she was off the highway

Given test can only detect alcohol from 12 to 24 hours after last drink (depending on rate of metabolism) could easily have been clear the next morning, especially if she went for a run first.

I know someone who lost his license for two years after being breathalyzed on the way into work - and the only times I've been breath checked were on routine crossroads police morning stops. There's a reason they do those (I'm assuming they happen in the UK).

I don't think they can stop you without reason, so you'd have to be driving erratically or something, but it's not unknown from people to be caught over the limit the morning after, especially in Christmas party season.

If they have no reason, they will make one up. I used to drive a tatty old banger and would get stopped late at night for various reasons.

Would George be entitled to free legal representation.

If so might it be argued that it is those in the middle (not entitled to free legal representation, but would be wiped out by the massive expense of paying for a solicitor of any quality) that are potentially the most disadvantaged?

@TottersBlanklyOnTheEdge @TherapistInATabard this is exactly what a RL Archers friend of myself said and she's a criminal lawyer. Her first thought...

Another PP said She didn’t break the law.

She was drunk in charge of a vehicle. Putting the keys in the glove box doesn't alter that.

I thought you were only breaking the law (i.e. guilty) if you could not prove you did not intend to drive (hence her putting the keys in the cubby).This is what the solicitors and insurance companies indicate.

otherwise you could get done for imbibing in your campervan when parked up overnight on a campsite.

So nobody actually saw Rochelle.

Yes you could be done for being drunk in a campervan. The elements are being over the limit and having the keys in your possession, or even near you.

If you're in a campsite, particularly an official paid for stance, possibly less likely but there's no particular distinction between private and public property. A pub car park is private property and there's no question that you can get done for drunk in charge there.

Drunk in charge of a vehicle

George isn't a sociopath. Not even close. He has backtracked and shown some remorse in the past. His apology to Helen over the Rob/Henry debacle seemed sincere at the time. He was actually concerned when he finally realised how dangerous Rob was tried to dissuade Henry from meeting him.

His behaviour towards his parents is awful but both (or all 3) of them pander to him and so have done him no favours. But I think he does love his family. There are frequent references to him looking after his younger sisters and my guess is he'd do anything to help them if needed.

I'm not denying he is an unpleasant character, a chancer, conniving and a bully. The 'lack of role models' doesn't stack up because he's had Will, Neil and Susan to look up to. Oliver tried his best and gave him money to get his business of the ground.

Despite all of that I don't think he's beyond redemption at all. A true Rob-esque sociopath would have left Alice in her car - not as a sensible course of action but out of complete indifference to her wellbeing - and I think eventually George will confess because the guilt will eat away at him. Sociopaths feel zero guilt about anything.