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Archers thread #163: Too much aggro, not enough agri! Discuss The Archers here.

1000 replies

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/04/2024 15:57

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

Archers All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that, or other unusual views. Grin

Archers Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

Archers For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LikeTalkingToLassie for the thread title idea! She and @LillianGish had fun with this theme on the last thread:

More farmer, less drama
More ploughing, less rowing
There's mileage in silage.
More sheds, fewer beds.

All good points. Fair to say nobody on the last thread was delighted to see the return of Harry. I think we all agree that Alice is a blithering idiot to get involved with him again. Most of us also think that Miranda is up to no good. Other storylines in play at the moment:

Alistair and Denise, with the massive complication of John and Paul
Ed and Emma - another doomed Grundy enterprise? Does Will still have the will to wang them some wonga?
Whither George - YouTube sensation or Borchester Magistrates' Court?
Will Markie cause mayhem at The Bull?
Will Harrison haul him in to Borchester nick?
Will Hannah get off with Chris?
Will we ever get used to the new Robert?
Will there ever be a new Roy?
Why do we hear so little from Brookfield now? (Although if we never heard Pip again, I for one would be delighted)
Will Stella dump Pip?

There are probably others I've missed. Over to you!

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TottersBlankly · 14/04/2024 13:14

Gosh, you can always spot a Keri Davies week: Carol Tregorran and Jamie Perks both featuring for the first time in years! Remarks about the age of some of the characters featured too.

Definitely deserves a BOOP!

Though surely no one believes Carol is actually still living in Ambridge? She and Jill and Leonard would have been hanging out at all the Ambridge hotspots if she were. I guess the SWs can’t move her until Jill dies and her cottage is inherited by the next generation of Archers.

Which once again reminds me of the disappointment over The Lodge. Unless someone really interesting takes it over.

Bruisername · 14/04/2024 19:15

a Bit of cricket. I know it’s not farming but it beats a lot of what we’ve had recently.

poor Hannah - is she going to end up in an unrequited love funk

alice was very defensive. Stupid SL to make sure we are all there listening to her gps appointment?

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 14/04/2024 19:34

I find the idea that Hannah would score at all utterly absurd. She freely admitted she had never touched a cricket bat or ball in her life until 28th March this year, and has been touted as a novice mid-pace bowler who can't bat for toffee, and furthermore every match against Darrington has always been a needle match and they'd have been sledging her unmercifully and using their most lethal bowling against her.

RegimentalSturgeon · 14/04/2024 20:17

And a novice bat flailing at an unsuccessful bouncer (which is what I think they intended us to understand) wouldn’t hit a square cut; they would most likely hook it and either be caught in the deep or have tonked it right out of the park for six.

BoreOfWhabylon · 14/04/2024 22:00

TottersBlankly · 14/04/2024 01:29

Am rewatching Spooks.

S1, Ep4 (2002!) contains some exceptionally pleasing Fairfather shenanigans…

Edited

Oooh, the Fairfather!
Wish they'd bring him back Grin

Grimchmas · 15/04/2024 00:10

<has no idea about the cricket talk>

I stopped listening about a week ago. Not intentionally, I might still catch up, but if I hear about MeanEd's tree surgery business one more time I'll loose the will entirely, and I find the Miranda storyline too dull for words too.

BeatriceBatchelor · 15/04/2024 00:13

RegimentalSturgeon · 14/04/2024 20:17

And a novice bat flailing at an unsuccessful bouncer (which is what I think they intended us to understand) wouldn’t hit a square cut; they would most likely hook it and either be caught in the deep or have tonked it right out of the park for six.

I do not have the first clue what you're talking about 😂

Grimchmas · 15/04/2024 00:33

To answer your questions about Harry's stables @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g ..

Does it take a lot of capital to set up or buy a training stables?

Does it take a lot of money to tent or buy an equestrian property? Yep. He won't be in leaky ramshackle stables with no acreage. His earnings will be almost solely from riding and producing horses for other people or to sell, an eventing career doesn't pay big bucks. He may have a professional sponsor or two; most likely is that he got help from family to start his yard up, although it should be self sufficient by now.

Are we talking about eventing horses or racehorses?

Eventing horses (eventers). He probably produces some that he sells as showjumpers or dressage horses occasionally, as some don't take to all 3 disciplines. Racing is an entirely separate sport and I haven't heard any mention of him or his family being involved in racing.

The horses would belong to other people who would pay an agreed fee to the trainer, I suppose.

He likely has two main sources if income from horses; people paying him to produce (ride and train) their horses, and him buying young horses to bring on in education then sell for profit.

The trainer needs enough income to pay for premises, staff, feed, veterinary costs, insurance and transport, with enough left over for his own living costs.

The owners would pay him a fee which includes stabling and training, and basic food, bedding, mucking out, handling etc. Vet costs would be paid by the owners. He will have grooms to pay, and they're likely involved in riding some of the horses but I expect he would need to do most of the riding. If he's successful, he should be riding a significant number of horses a day, and his team preparing then for him to get on and ride, one after the other, then taking them to cool down and look after when he finishes so he been very on the next one. I.e. he should in theory be working hard for long hours, and out like a light at night.

---

While I'm on the subject of horses, you don't speak to clients like Alice did in the supposed riding lesson she was teaching - you can't then go and have a conversation about your choice of language and ignore the client riding away in the background, and your aunt doesn't take over your lesson half way through.

Not least because we've never heard Alice or Lillian taking their instructors qualifications, and "the stables" isn't run like a riding school, it's run like a high end livery yard and the people who keep their horses there don't want lessons from somebody unqualified, and they certainly don't want their horses being kicked and dragged about by novice riding school clients. We hear so little about lessons happening or about clients coming and going that the whole thing is just totally improbable that it's a riding school. <stamps a Dubarry-clas foot as a makeshift gavel>

Alwaysdieting · 15/04/2024 05:54

Alice is so annoying. Surely she must see that Kate and Lillian are worried about her, surely she must see it wasnt that long ago she was drinking and throwing bricks though windows, surley she must see that she has been acting badly because of lack of sleep and Harry must be phoning her every 5 minutes because he is a selfish drunk. Surely she must see because she was so awful when drinking and now she has Martha that every one would be keeping a discreet eye on her.
She really is the limit, how dare anyone think she is drinking, how dare any one question her behaviour.
Oh and the cricket noises were good, at least they were outside and not in The Bull for a change.

Ambridge · 15/04/2024 07:45

Given everything Grinchmas has very interestingly and helpfully detailed above 👆and contrasting it with what is now implied to be Harry's desperate state (including his mother's testimony of how horrendous his descent into alcoholism has been, and how the family can no longer help him), how can he maintain a business to any sort of required professional level without his clients noticing, with consequent financial impact?

Plus - I expect he would need to do most of the riding. Not that long ago we had the whole SL about his injury and were told he'd had to give up competing, but clearly if he has the business he must be riding on a daily basis. Yet didn’t he go out with Alice and she treated him like a recovering invalid who hadn’t been on a horse in some time?

I know there's such a thing as a functioning alcoholic but it’s all too weird.

LillianGish · 15/04/2024 08:45

Harry has been parachuted in as an alcoholic drinking in last chance saloon, he has been given a improbable horsey background to give him something in common with Alice and throw temptation in her path. None of this has been particularly thought out beyond ticking the horsey alcoholic box so doesn’t bear scrutiny. I would have preferred the return of Latif for example who had at least already demonstrated a degree of Borsetshire horsiness. I think he would have been unlikely to be an alcoholic, but he could have been a social drinker at society events (just one glass - surely that can’t do any harm?).

Grimchmas · 15/04/2024 08:47

Ambridge · 15/04/2024 07:45

Given everything Grinchmas has very interestingly and helpfully detailed above 👆and contrasting it with what is now implied to be Harry's desperate state (including his mother's testimony of how horrendous his descent into alcoholism has been, and how the family can no longer help him), how can he maintain a business to any sort of required professional level without his clients noticing, with consequent financial impact?

Plus - I expect he would need to do most of the riding. Not that long ago we had the whole SL about his injury and were told he'd had to give up competing, but clearly if he has the business he must be riding on a daily basis. Yet didn’t he go out with Alice and she treated him like a recovering invalid who hadn’t been on a horse in some time?

I know there's such a thing as a functioning alcoholic but it’s all too weird.

Equestrians are renowned for not paying too much heed to their own injuries or illnesses - if doctors tell them not to ride they will usually find a way to cheat, but that only works up to a point, and yes I imagine there must have been multiple incidences of him letting people and horses down, and likely dangerously so. Competing in eventing requires peak fitness and cognition, as it's a high risk sport and lives are occasionally lost, and people get life limiting injuries. Schooling young, fit horses is also risky, but it seems like both Harry the character and Harry the drunk aren't exactly shy of risk.

The equestrian world isn't a stranger to functioning alcoholics. I remember being horrified to find out about somebody who had balanced a bottle of wine between their knees while driving a 7.5 ton horsebox with several horses and people in it and being shrugged off. Not so easy to get away with at top level eventing, where he'd be at risk of compulsory random drug testing, but plenty of people walk wobble a fine line, and who you are and who you are connected to is still influential, even if it officially isn't.

Definitely still more holes in the storyline than a Swiss cheese plant.

Grimchmas · 15/04/2024 08:55

Having said that, Harry managed to hide his alcoholism from a recovering(ed?) alcoholic he was in a relationship with is weird as hell too. Surely she'd be hypersensitive to the smell, and to the behaviour?

Gruffallowhydidntyouknow · 15/04/2024 11:54

The accents are something I really had to get used to.

Mia, Tracey and Chelsea's accents really grateful me.

I can't stand Mia as a character.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 15/04/2024 19:51

Thank you so much, @Grimchmas, that was very interesting and useful. What a shame the production team have cobbled together such a threadbare storyline when with a little more research and thought they could have given us two credible rural businesses - the stables in Ambridge, with a clear understanding of whether it's a local stables where kids go to learn to ride or whether it's a livery stables, and the training stables. Lillian's idea of Latif returning would have been great. What a missed opportunity.

(Haven't heard tonight's yet. No comments yet - never a good sign!)

OP posts:
Bruisername · 15/04/2024 19:52

I forgot and can’t be bothered to listen

TottersBlankly · 15/04/2024 19:53

To think only days ago we were moaning about no GP in the village. And how the story suffered from lack of such a prime gossip generator.

And now …

Is everyone going to drag an unwilling witness into their GP appointment? That could get old pretty damn quick.

Bruisername · 15/04/2024 19:56

Oh yes - the well placed plot device of the community gp visit

was it very educational?

DeanElderberry · 15/04/2024 20:05

Lily's combination smugness and treachery was excellent, I hope her wicked ways are exposed soon.

TottersBlankly · 15/04/2024 20:09

Also meant to say thank you to @Grimchmas. I had assumed I knew what went on within various horsey enterprises (because I read every single Pullein-Thompson book as a child, and have been to a couple of gymkhanas and watched showjumping on TV about 40 years ago …) It was illuminating to see some of the details and differences set out.

I think after his dainty collapse after riding with Alice, I’ve assumed Harry employs someone full time to do all the necessary riding and training at his stables.

But I doubt a single one of the audience believed Alice could be as rude as she was to her riding client!

Zyq · 15/04/2024 23:27

Alice's GP appointment has to have gone way over the standard 10 minutes usually allowed for in NHS surgeries. Tough luck on the patients coming after her.

I wish I thought she was going to pay attention to the advice she received about helping other alcoholics, but something tells me she will think she knows best.

EBearhug · 16/04/2024 00:08

Is Azra also Harry's GP? He said he was seeing Dr Malik, I think - and Alice was with him when he was told he'll get a referral to the liver clinic and so on. Though there could be more than one Dr Malik. But basically, she was telling Alice, "you can't help Harry," without mentioning his name.

BeatriceBatchelor · 16/04/2024 07:13

The interactions between Harrison and Lily at GG were bizarre.

Him - a copper - trying to blag some extra freebies on top of his free B&B. Her promoting the function room at LL over the ones at GG. All done in her syrupy posh girl voice.

Could be a good SL!

DeanElderberry · 16/04/2024 07:42

I so hope that a 'real owner' shows up just as loathsome Lily gets really practiced with her poaching attempts.

And that not only does she get sacked, Grey Gables gets sued (not sure what for) or at least sent a very firmly worded legal letter about dodgy business practice.

And that this happens JUST as Freddy gets a glowing reference from Vince for his good work ethic, solid industry, common sense, excellent character.

And that as a result he gets his full inheritance at long last.

And makes a few changes starting with giving his vile sister the boot.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 16/04/2024 07:53

Did you mean LL getting a firmly worded letter, Dean? Agreed, that would be great.

Harry does indeed have the same GP as Alice, so must live only a few miles from Ambridge, and yet none of the horsey people in Ambridge had ever heard of him or his stables until the last few months. Jakob is a specialist equine vet - does he know Harry and his business? I can't recall that being mentioned.

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