Archers thread #163: Too much aggro, not enough agri! Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LikeTalkingToLassie for the thread title idea! She and @LillianGish had fun with this theme on the last thread:

More farmer, less drama
More ploughing, less rowing
There's mileage in silage.
More sheds, fewer beds.

All good points. Fair to say nobody on the last thread was delighted to see the return of Harry. I think we all agree that Alice is a blithering idiot to get involved with him again. Most of us also think that Miranda is up to no good. Other storylines in play at the moment:

Alistair and Denise, with the massive complication of John and Paul
Ed and Emma - another doomed Grundy enterprise? Does Will still have the will to wang them some wonga?
Whither George - YouTube sensation or Borchester Magistrates' Court?
Will Markie cause mayhem at The Bull?
Will Harrison haul him in to Borchester nick?
Will Hannah get off with Chris?
Will we ever get used to the new Robert?
Will there ever be a new Roy?
Why do we hear so little from Brookfield now? (Although if we never heard Pip again, I for one would be delighted)
Will Stella dump Pip?

There are probably others I've missed. Over to you!

Sorry Gaspode, I did indeed mean Lower Loxley, in fact preferably Lower Loxley's trustees or whatever they're called, not Lizzy who will never criticise loathsome Lily no matter what.

I'm a little over-invested in this.

Didn’t Shula used to give riding lessons? I seem to remember her always being late for them. Also, Susan had one fairly recently though I can’t remember if that was Shula or Alice who took it. Didn’t Susan unrealistically manage to do rising trot after about 10 mins in the saddle?

H was only pulling Lily’s leg re the freebies. He will be impeccably behaved for at least a couple more months.

I’ve known some pretty obnoxious riding instructors in time.

I was a bit confused by Lily’s attempt to poach Harrison as a guest to LL.

As I remember LL went into business as a conference venue - with accommodation for conference delegates. And then when the law changed to allow a wider range of venues for marriage ceremonies it expanded into the stately home wedding market - with accommodation for wedding parties. I recall Kirsty and her mother (/father?) stayed there prior to her non-wedding.

What I don’t remember is when they apparently morphed into a high class B and B, seeking the custom of local bobbies to stay afloat.

Please advise!

I missed the start last night so I was confused too. Just listened back for clarity and I think they were talking about 2 different things - H & F's upcoming stay at GG (given to them by Chris) and then as they talked about that, loathsome Lily invited Harrison to visit to inspect the venue as a possible space to hire for the police ball. Although why on earth it would be his job to do that, I’ve no idea (and presumably her plan was always to diss GG once she got him there, and big up LoLo instead).

I didn’t realise the police were still spending money on balls? Or are they funded by donations?

Either way, plenty there for a Grey Gables owner/investor to take a very dim view of. One thing for her to try to tout for business if she met someone in the pub or on the green, but to take a job at GG and while at work and on the payroll try to lure their customers or prospective customers away - very nasty.

I wasn't an Archers listener when Alice was of Pony Club age...how much was made of her involvement/general horsiness at the time? I find it realistic to think she might have done her PC tests and/or Stages up to AI at the time, but her (return to?) full-on horsiness after her life blew up came as a bit of a surprise to me, and there's not been a hint at her doing any qualifications since then. My understanding is that they now involve tonnes of log books and stuff to be signed off on now, so you can't just rock up for the exam. My impression was also that The Stables (naff name. WHICH stables?) is meant to be a high-end livery yard offering decent training facilities. If Alice has an historical AI, it's not impossible that individual lessons for child liveries are on offer, but I'd think it more likely that adult liveries would bring in their own coaches, if the yard manager isn't a "name" with further qualifications.

I have no idea about Alice's qualifications to give riding lessons except to say she was a very horsey child, but in Shula's day The Stables was very much about riding lessons. I never thought of it as being particularly "high-end" (except in as much as horse ownership and horsiness implies a certain degree of wealth). When Shula was in charge there was lots of hunting and going out for a hack along with the riding lessons. Since Lilian's investment The Stables (as with so many things in Ambridge these days) seems to be being reinvented.

I know this isn’t exactly news but having a Lilian and a Lily and a Lizzy in the same family is a bit confusing. See also Harry and Harrison (no relation). Thank god for Rex and Coriander.

Re police ball - if it’s anything like my workplace the coppers would have to pay for it themselves by buying tickets. And I thought H sounded distinctly dodgy asking for freebies!!

true, but otoh, Ben Beth and Bess made a lovely little family.

Elizabeth isn't really Lizzy. Nigel called her Lizzie.
Lilian and Lily have different vibes IMO.
The Buttons are Molly, Tilly and Billy IIRC
IRL similar names crop up in families.

A friend has a daughter and 2 grand-daughters with very similar names. Not the actual names but something like Ann, Anna and Annie.

true, but otoh, Ben Beth and Bess made a lovely little family.
Beth was nicer than Steph but that's only because Steph was dreadful.

Harry does indeed have the same GP as Alice, so must live only a few miles from Ambridge

Wasn't he going to Darrington for the appointment? We know the Ambridge surgery closed years ago. He could live the other side of their catchment area from Ambridge. I don't know how large rural GP areas area. My own town centre practice has a second surgery in a nearby village - they've asked if I can go there for a couple of things in the past (which I can, because I can drive, but it wouldn't be an option for everyone.) I know at least some of the GPs do some days in one, some in the other, but I don't know how wide their overall area is.

Anyway, it's unfeasible that they would never have come across each other before, all the horsey lot in the area.

But Lily and Lilian are not very closely related, first cousins once removed. We have a large extended family and several cousins' children, second cousins and so on have similar, or even the same, name. My Dad has two first cousins, a cousin's husband, and an uncle all called Dennis. And I don't think Phil and Jill would reasonably have thought, on naming Elizabeth, that there were shortened versions of it that sounded similar to her cousin Lilian. If anything, it's the Bridge Farm Archers who go in for reusing names: Let's not forget that the SWs had Peggy marry two men called Jack! And Jack Archer's grandson John had a son also called John (Johnny), who has a cousin Jack.

I don't mind Harry and Harrison, because they are such different characters. I always get confused between Rex and Toby's names, and they're nothing alike, they're just not major enough characters that it stuck in my head which one was which. Ditto Hannah and Stella for a while, although they're now both more prominent so I am no longer confused.

I grew up somewhere rural and the GP surgery was in the nearest market town. I think about a 7 or 8 mile radius at most.

Alice was horsey but not into eventing as far as I can recall.

I don't get the Ann, Anna, Annies mixed up. They are quite different in personalities and looks. They are aunt, cousin and cousin. I did wonder why they used such similar names.

You can be in the same sort of circles as someone without meeting them

EBearhug
Harry does indeed have the same GP as Alice, so must live only a few miles from Ambridge

Wasn't he going to Darrington for the appointment? We know the Ambridge surgery closed years ago. He could live the other side of their catchment area from Ambridge.

We know Harry lives near Darrington because that is where Chris went when Harry asked him to go and shoe a horse as an emergency. (Synopsis says "Chris could fit him in tomorrow morning at ten o'clock if he isn't too far away; no, he's just the other side of Darrington."

And we know that the surgery in Darrington was recently invented so that Azra could get a job there, as opposed to all Tim Hathaway's patients in Ambridge having to go to a practice in either Hollerton or Borchester when Tim left, because there was no doctor closer.

To be fair, I'm not really sure where Ambridge/Hollerton/Darrington/Borchester are in relation to each other, despite having seen maps of Ambridge. This is no doubt partly down to scripting that means it's left indefinite and thus flexible according to plot needs, but it means we're left wondering if things actually work.

If you think of Ambridge as in the middle, Darrington is about six miles ESE, Borchester is about six miles NE, and Hollerton is about four miles SW. Each is on a direct road.

Dr Malik is a pretty rubbish doctor if she didn't ask why Alice's family thought she was drinking again, I mean was she sleepy, incoherent, changes in behaviour? Symptoms might suggest a health problem! Why dismiss it as a family row?

Alice is so desperate to be needed. Cringing for her.

Harry is obviously not going to keep going to those meetings.

Harry has that annoying little laugh, just like Rob Titchner…………….

Evidently nasty Lily's work at Grey Gables is a work placement connected with her estate management studies, so with luck she'll not just be left disgraced and unemployed, she'll also be prevented from getting the qualification she plans to use to do down Freddy.

Fallon was very keen not to have anything too outrageous done to her hair. Didn’t she used to be in a band and she is meant to be arty/creative. I would have thought she might have liked something a bit edgy but she sounded about 100 years old the way she dampened down Chelsea’s enthusiasm.

Poor Hannah. Always the bridesmaid…The actress is playing downhearted and disappointed very well.

I can just about understand Alice feeling she can't "let Harry down" because she'll feel bad if he goes back to drinking through lack of support. I really can't understand why she hasn't run the whole thing past her mentor, who could advise her properly on the most effective way for Harry to get support. If he genuinely intended to give up the booze, there is no way that he'd be insisting that only Alice could be his mentor, and I'm 99% certain that there is no way that AA would countenance it.