Archers thread #163: Too much aggro, not enough agri! Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LikeTalkingToLassie for the thread title idea! She and @LillianGish had fun with this theme on the last thread:

More farmer, less drama
More ploughing, less rowing
There's mileage in silage.
More sheds, fewer beds.

All good points. Fair to say nobody on the last thread was delighted to see the return of Harry. I think we all agree that Alice is a blithering idiot to get involved with him again. Most of us also think that Miranda is up to no good. Other storylines in play at the moment:

Alistair and Denise, with the massive complication of John and Paul
Ed and Emma - another doomed Grundy enterprise? Does Will still have the will to wang them some wonga?
Whither George - YouTube sensation or Borchester Magistrates' Court?
Will Markie cause mayhem at The Bull?
Will Harrison haul him in to Borchester nick?
Will Hannah get off with Chris?
Will we ever get used to the new Robert?
Will there ever be a new Roy?
Why do we hear so little from Brookfield now? (Although if we never heard Pip again, I for one would be delighted)
Will Stella dump Pip?

There are probably others I've missed. Over to you!

I though Alice had no recollection of mentioning Lisa to Jacob and lied by instinct because that's what she does, but then rallied and pulled out a quote of something Lisa said to her a year or two ago, so it sounded convincing. Good liars do sound convincing.

The actress conveyed to me that Alice was lying.

Could be a dramatic red herring and she's not lying at all!

I'm 69 and I've never known an alcoholic that I'm aware of.

I agree. Are Jazzer and Ruairi box ticking for diversity because they have disabilities?

Thank you, @WitcheryDivine - you have saved my blood pressure …

Alice is that rare thing in Ambridge, a character with a very good actor. I don't like Alice but think she is really well done.

I've know quite a few alcoholics, most of them 'in recovery' the whole time I knew them, though there were a couple of guys who were still drinking when we first worked together, and another bloke who afaik never acknowledged his problem but did have a habit of nipping to the pub on the corner for a drink.

@CaptainMyCaptain @MereDintofPandiculation - you’ve probably known countless alcoholics - without their introducing themselves as such. Many might not even have acknowledged it to themselves.

I know a functioning alcoholic who looks like the healthiest young middle aged man alive. Clear skin (ticks a diversity box …), goes to the gym, holds down a demanding job and is mostly a wonderful husband and father. But regularly gets through two or three bottles of wine in a day, or a bottle of spirits, and strongly resents any suggestion that cutting down might be good … I worry immensely, but it doesn’t seem to have caught up with him yet.

I thought that too.

I don’t understand how realising Harry was bad news for her, thinking she should help him and then seeing him go to rehab led her to think ‘actually I wasn’t that bad and I can totally control my alcohol intake’

Jim's slippers being a turn-off😄
I went out with an older man from work and he brought his slippers with him to stay at mine😝

@CaptainMyCaptain , @WitcheryDivine , @TottersBlankly ,
re: diversity.
It does seem like that to me.
We've had an increase in diversity on TA recently.
In the past:
We've had mixed race characters - Nolly and Amy. Amy's grandmother is black.
We've had an Asian character- Usha with occasional visits from her relatives
We've had Adam and Ian as a gay couple.
We had Mrs HWMNBN, Lexi and Pawel as Eastern Europeans
We've had two disabled actors, and both are excellent actors
No complaints from me. Still not very diverse but it's a small rural village.

Suddenly it feels like any new character needs to check a tickbox.
For example, Helen's barrister was a lesbian, Stella, and now Pip, is a lesbian.
Paul is gay, camp and black.
Denise is black
Ruairi is bisexual
Mia is a vegan and environmentalist.
Ifty was Asian, Adil and Azra are Asian, Usha is Asian
Natasha is Welsh, as was Rhys and Philip and Gavin
Harrison's boss is female and asian
Jakob and Brad are suspected to be ND
Ben has had a mental illness
...

Look at the regional or socio-economic background of these characters.
Asians - professionals
Brummies - the Caseys, wide boy, spoilt princess and drippy daughter.
Yam-yams - Markie, HWMNBN
Scotsman - drinks a lot, patriotic.
Irish - temptress Siobhan, needy Ian
Welsh - the language issue when Caitlin was there, dodgy Rhys, slave-masters.
Geordie - warm, kind and cheerful
Northerners - friendly , down-to-earth (excl Hannah)
Working class - losers or hardworking & down-to-earth
Southerner - Lynda and her 'Sunningdale' attitude (I love Lynda but it took a long time)
Stereotyping much?

It feels a bit like a new character who is only in a few episodes has to tick a checkbox. A professional (e.g. surgeon, social worker or headteacher) would not be a middle-class heterosexual man. A new character in a low pay occupation would not be Asian. A previously silent Denise is not a happily-married white character.

I don't believe that the 'diversity' reflects the diversity one would find in modern Britain or in a modern Ambridge.

Quite possibly but I wouldn't know they were lying to me because I wouldn't know they had a problem.

I've known some alcoholics. There are the obvious ones and there are ones who function completely normally.
The ones who function normally present as Alice did to Lillian, or so it seemed to me.
A colleague would spend all lunchtime in the pub.
Friend who could drink with a meal including several brandys and would drive home. Only once did I accept a lift, I was terrified.
Some of them turn up for work and seem a bit like they overdid things the night before e,g. a bit bleary-eyed and smelling of beer.

Ive know two Alcoholics. One I had no idea even though she always had 2 little bottles of coke in her bag. I didnt know until she left where we worked and then come back for a visit as pissed as a newt. Security had to escort her from the building. The other was another women I worked with and she was doing the 12 steps or whatever its callled They were both quite sad really. Both single and very lonely.

Totally agree.

I find it odd when people claim that the presence of a Black, gay or disabled actor is simply because...diversity. I've seen it on threads about soaps based in some of the most diverse areas of the country which is really bizarre.

I'm Black and have relatives who live in large diverse cities but also have a sister and cousin who live in (different) small villages in very rural areas. I didn't realise Denise was until about a year ago when Alistair commented on her new hairstyle and she said it was braids. Lots of people at the time commented they had no idea so it seems unlikely that her presence was to tick a diversity box as as so many of us assumed she was white.

Agree with this, I think it’s healthy that it’s not referred to. In our very small village there are black and Asian residents and I’ve never heard anyone remark on the colour of their skin.

I find it a bit hard to distinguish between Alice the alcoholic and someone like Lilian who likely has a G&T every single day. What is the difference really? Granted Alice may neck an entire bottle of wine whereas Lilian can stick to 1 or 2 drinks but both are still drinking alcohol every day or near enough.

Is it the dependency aspect that makes somone an alcoholic? I know several people who say they live for wine o’clock once the kids are in bed or work is finally over and they rely on the drink to relax. I wouldn’t call them alcoholics but they certainly seem to depend on that glass of wine, beer to a certain extent.

I guess if we both spelt it out would be "I have never known a person who was visibly having problems with alcohol or who divulged to me that they were avoiding alcohol because they were an alcoholic". I thought that would have been obvious.

And we wouldn't know they were lying because a) we didn't know they had a problem to lie about and b) we wouldn't have been asking them searching questions about their drinking habits.

Alice will drink herself into oblivion while in charge of Marther.

That's distinct from Lynder.

I mean Lilian!

That is what I meant. I said 'I'm 69 and I've never known an alcoholic that I'm aware of.

I have known several alcoholics, people as various as non-alcoholics; notably one who was an absolute darling and totally kind to me when I was a child, so that I really didn't understand why the grownups were so edgy about us being in the same room, one who seemed completely without fear or awareness of consequences, one who was utterly horrible as soon as she got drunk and specialised in saying to any person the thing that would hurt them the worst, one who told long and rather pointless stories and laughed at them a lot, one who got very quiet and then towards the end of an evening slid to the floor and snored....

From which I came to the conclusion that I was not going to assume any alcoholic was like any other alcoholic, but take them as I found them.

I would categorise Alice as a mean drunk.

I only know one obvious alcoholic, in the pub every day type of thing. Apparently when he was younger it was far less noticeable as lots of people in their teens or twenties go out as lot. But I know at least a couple of others I strongly suspect because they drink a lot and very fast and are always eager to press booze on others (to have someone to drink with?) and they never seem to want to stop or end the evening. A few big home drinkers of the Lillian generation as well.

Seems as if Jakob is being set up to go from the favoured, honorary Aldridge son to persona non grata once they find out he’s been hiding Alice’s secret.

I know it’s been mentioned before but Miranda sounds exactly like Hazel Wooley.

Listened to Tuesday's episode on the drive to work.

Ick!

If I were daft Alistair I'd be offended that Denise finally gets the chance to have her wicked way with me but ... she's holding out for a night in a hotel with a pool.