Archers thread #163: Too much aggro, not enough agri! Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LikeTalkingToLassie for the thread title idea! She and @LillianGish had fun with this theme on the last thread:

More farmer, less drama
More ploughing, less rowing
There's mileage in silage.
More sheds, fewer beds.

All good points. Fair to say nobody on the last thread was delighted to see the return of Harry. I think we all agree that Alice is a blithering idiot to get involved with him again. Most of us also think that Miranda is up to no good. Other storylines in play at the moment:

Alistair and Denise, with the massive complication of John and Paul
Ed and Emma - another doomed Grundy enterprise? Does Will still have the will to wang them some wonga?
Whither George - YouTube sensation or Borchester Magistrates' Court?
Will Markie cause mayhem at The Bull?
Will Harrison haul him in to Borchester nick?
Will Hannah get off with Chris?
Will we ever get used to the new Robert?
Will there ever be a new Roy?
Why do we hear so little from Brookfield now? (Although if we never heard Pip again, I for one would be delighted)
Will Stella dump Pip?

There are probably others I've missed. Over to you!

I feel she was lying

i didn't think Denise came across well at all. I don’t get them as a couple

Alice is definitely lying.

Denise and Alistair are awful horrible people.

Agreed on both counts.

No, you're definitely not imagining things. It's as though the scriptwriters think the listeners lack patience. I miss the slower pace, it made for much better quality storylines.

Agree and this makes for more boring episodes - they could easily have fit another SL scene in there and cut some of the nonsense

Alice was definitely lying.

I think the whole adulterous thing with A and D is so there can be a full-on fall -out with Paul.

All this sex makes me think of the way Coronation Street used to be, trouble at t'raincoat factory or tombola at the Glad Tidings Mission before it became a hotbed of lust and sudden death.

Gah Denise sounded so sleazy!

I think Alice has spoken to Lisa but I also think she’s still drinking.

Hard to tell with Alice. At first, she sounded really evasive when Jakob was asking if she’d spoken to Lisa, but when they had a coffee together, she was giving more specific details making it seem more credible. I lean towards her having lied, though.

Denise and Alistair - why oh why?

To tick the diversity checkbox.

I think Alice is lying and just recalling previous conversations she had with her sponser to make it sound to Jakob that she is back on track. Im sure Alcoholics are clever and Alice is really good at covering up until she starts throwing bricks at Susan again.
A and D are boring and nasty planning a night in a hotel. The sw seem to condone affairs and seem to think we would be rooting for them to get thier leg over.

The affair is certainly not written as well as Brian’s in the past!

I definitely think it sounded as though Alice was lying. She was very evasive to begin with until she thought about a lie to tell. I guess she’s fairly safe to lie about that, as it’s not possible for Jakob to check up with Lisa, is it?

I think Jakob is going to be devastated that she manipulated him like that

How old is Jakob?

He's never met an alcoholic before.

I'm not sure. She responded to the question of whether Lisa had been helpful with a classic evasion "Lisa is always helpful". I don't believe her. But Jakob isn't good at reading between the lines.

Also, when she gets found out is she going to throw him under the bus?

No age listed for him on the BBC website.

Affairs are common. It would be unrealistic for no-one in Ambridge to have an affair. And this isn't some sort of 1920s "improving" book for the young mind, it's not the SW's job to try to convey that this behaviour is wrong. Their job is solely to make us believe it is happening.

He's more or less already thrown himself under the bus.

She will drink more; the drinking will become obvious; he has been covering for her.

I'm not sure I've met an alcoholic. And I'm probably twice Jakob's age, so I'm prepared to believe that he hasn't.

Alice has always been a pretty convincing liar when drinking, hence the fact it took even Chris so long to realise. I wish Jakob would work it out that it's really not credible the Lisa was as casual as Alice makes out: as I understand it, you never take it on trust from an alcoholic that they've had just one drink and nothing since, because it's near-impossible. That's why it's drummed into AA members that they mustn't have even one sip.

Sorry but this is rubbish, if you mean because Denise is played by a black actor there have been non white actors in The Archers for decades. It is set in the Midlands one of the most diverse areas of the country! Black people haven’t just been invented nor are villages actually reserved for white people. I’ve lived in a small village with a population that included people from other parts of the world, black British people, Asian people and gay people. IMO it’s the BBC trying to reflect the real world not pretend it’s diverse.

Anyway even if that was the mission the affair with Denise and Alastair wouldn’t be compulsory would it!

Sorry to go off on one that just struck me as an odd perspective.

Tbf if the reaction on this thread is anything to go by the se have done a good job of showing affairs to be seedy, nasty things

i guess Brian’s affairs worked so well because we knew all the characters but we don’t know John

denises BS excuse that he keeps making excuses not to talk to her makes her sound even worse. ‘I would tell him but he doesn’t want to hear it’. Given her personality that just shows she wants her cake and to eat it

Is Denise the character a black woman?

I must say, it's news to me and if listeners don't know she's black, what's that doing for "diversity?"

I've said it before and I'll say it again, there's no sense of jeopardy with Alistair and Denise because we neither know nor care about John. Jim already knows what Alistair is up to and is actively encouraging it. Paul could potentially be collateral damage, but it's a long time since we heard from him and I still don't feel he's fully embedded as a character we know or care that much about. I miss the slower pace, it made for much better quality storylines I agree with @Poppins2016 and @MereDintofPandiculation on this. In the old days there was much more rural life going on it the background - ploughing and sowing and milking and lambing and discussion about different approaches to all of these things. It feels like all of this has now been removed and we are left with issue-led drama which someone clearly thinks makes The Archers more compelling, but actually makes it rather wearing. The best drama comes from the tension between the farming dynasties - who will inherit what and the inequality between those who own the land (and the various properties attached to that land) and those who are forever destined to struggle as tenants (I think it was Neil Kinnock who called for the programme to renamed The Grundys and their Oppressors). Alcoholism and infidelity are fine to spice things up a bit, but when that's the sum total of the action it begins to feel as if Ambridge has lost its soul.