Archers thread #162: ‘This is like talking to Lassie’ – how right you are, Fallon! Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think cowhide-covered walls are a great idea for a cafe with vegan and vegetarian customers, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Title comes from one of the better scripted conversations of recent weeks, when Fallon said ”Harrison, this is like talking to Lassie! Just TELL ME”. So true of so many conversations on TA where you just want to shake them and yell 'Just TELL US, and quickly, so you don't get interrupted before you can say the important bit', but of course they rarely do and days pass before the conversation resumes. @TheBell suggested putting it in the title, so thanks for that.

@OverArmour had a great if more obscure idea, paying tribute to a Peter Greenaway film: The Policeman, The Drunk, The Vet and his Lover. That will do very well as a starting point for the new thread. Will Alistair leave? Will Denise tell John she's leaving him? Will Paul learn to be less noisy? Do any of us care?

I do care a little about Harrison and Fallon. I want Harrison to get a grip and realise he needs a paying job more than the captaincy of the cricket team. I don't care at all about Harry but I think he's been brought in purely as a plot device so with any luck we can all forget about him very soon.

Over to you!

Me neither and before breakfast here, yuck!

Lilian's line about her cosmetic surgeon only being able to do so much made me guffaw...

Indeed, and prior to that in the shower.

It would have been better if Stella hadn't tried to talk to Pip while she was working, but Pip is so irredeemably thick and self-centred that she didn't pick up on the importance of it. It will probably be weeks before the penny finally drops, and even then Stella will have to get so assertive that Pip interprets it as aggressive.

Much preferred the dialogue involving Brian and Lilian. I think Miranda is using Brian. Fair enough, he'll wake up to it soon enough. What I really want is for Lilian to wake up to the fact that Justin isn't good enough for her.

<Sigh> There’s no doubt Home Farm (House) was the necessary third person in the Aldridge marriage - at least for listeners. I wonder if, even now, the creative team realise what a priceless treasure they’ve thrown away. I so agree with this @TottersBlanklyIntoBimboCore I slightly feel they’ve done similar damage to GG - blowing it up and then taking it apart and rebuilding it. I liked the ghost of Tommy Croker in the ballroom, Captain on the lawn and the possibility of being upgraded to the Royal Garden Suite. Underwoods’ foodhall has gone the same way - Nelson’s wine bar is obviously long gone. Les Sœurs Heureuses and the Fin (or is it Femme?) du Monde have never existed in such a fundamental way except as names to be bandied about. The locations are equally as important as the characters (as I’m sure the sound effects department would testify). We need a feeling for where people are speaking as much as we need to recognise who is speaking.

Nobody ever seems to go to Underwoods now. Another venue that seems to have disappeared.

I really don't believe that Pip is so attractive and charismatic that Stella would just overlook ALL the awful aspects of her!! It's not believable

Am wondering if the point of Miranda's return - after showing Brian hasn't lost his touch" () - is to help us learn a lot more about Justin's past.

And why hasn't Stella told Pip that she knew him pre-Ambridge when talking about his desire to elevate her to board level?

I'm hoping the return of Miranda will end up with the departure of Justin.

I've never got the hang of Justin in terms of his job and wealth. His character seems to get rewritten every 4 or 5 years.

If Miranda IS the wealthy one, wouldn't it be delightful if Home Farm came up for sale and she/Brian bought it?

I've rather enjoyed this week. New Robert and Miranda are welcome additions to the cast for me.

I imagine it would be a lead balloon of Brian moved back with another woman. Not sure he could stomach it either.

Justin is a terribly written character

As I understand it, the Gills completely gutted Home Farmhouse and made it totally different inside, so the idea of moving back there would be pretty horrible for Brian.

I've never got the hang of Justin in terms of his job and wealth. His character seems to get rewritten every 4 or 5 years. His character is rewritten according to the requirements of the plot - ruthless businessman/affable country gent no consistency whatsoever. We don’t really know anything about him so who knows or cares whether what Miranda is saying is true. Brian we do know so all the ridiculous nonsense about Miranda and Jenny being great buddies completely ignoring the fact that she was Lillian’s sister is exactly that - ridiculous nonsense. Does anyone actually enjoy this - with the possible exception of those tuning in for the first time who don’t know any different and are looking for some kind of rural EastEnders for the radio (see also Jolene, Markie and the supposed Wolverhampton incident)?

The thing Kenton has organised to cheer up Jolene - could it be a gig in Wolverhampton?

I assumed that the attack on the pub Wolverhampton story was a proxy for travellers.

Why?

A violent gang, an aggressive dog, a pub being threatened... It's not a far leap to understand it as a proxy for travellers.

Except that the Archers has never been particularly bigoted, as far as I know. The only racist has been Peggy, who also represented Prejudice Against The Disabled, while Sid was the only homophobe in the village.

Perhaps it's the case that not all violent gangs with dangerous dogs are of any particular ethnic origin, and the editorial team of The Archers knows this.

It was obvious to me at the time they were coded as travellers. I thought then it was irresponsible of the BBC to do that.

Of course they aren't, but playing into negative stereotypes is a real issue and I feel like that's what they have done.

I think that's rather a leap. They were clearly not travellers, and there is not the slightest reason to think the editorial team intended to have a covert swipe at an ethnic minority.

It’s a bit of an odd sl. I can’t say them being travellers crossed my mind

but what were they doing in the car park at that time of night. What were they even doing in ambridge?

i would give the sw the benefit of the doubt on the traveller thing because the whole sl was so absurd I’m not sure much thought went into it

Yes. Let's introduce a thing that actually happens, but we can't say what it actually is or that it actually happens, so we'll invent a totally nonsensical history for Jolene.

I thought it was blindingly obvious?

I'm not sure Brian could face being in Home Farm without Jenny.

I said that they are a proxy for travellers. How to introduce a traveller storyline, without them actually being travellers.

Because yes, the Wolverhampton storyline makes so much sense 🙃 unless you understand the proxy.

Only if you buy into racial stereotypes. And think no All British Chaps are violent thugs.

Only there's a flaw in that assumption: it’s believed by the police that there are well over 5,000 different organised crime groups operating in the United Kingdom today, at a conservative estimate, and that is simply too many for them all to be travellers.