Archers thread #158: Te Rum? You numpty, numpty, Tom! Empty tearoom follows. Christmas coming, farmers’ stand up, will it make us LOL? No! Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Tom Archer is a great businessman, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LillianGish for the title idea, which may plant an earworm if my scansion just about holds up. @BeatriceBatchelor wanted 'plebby coffee' inserted in reference to my Bolivian coffee anecdote on the last thread, so I'll mention it here instead. Here's hoping Fallon and Emma decamp to the charging station or Grey Gables, or both, to run the type of coffee shop/tearoom people actually enjoy spending time in. Tom's cauliflower eclairs and kale criossants approach sounds more likely to drive the casual trade away from the farm shop and cheese window as well as the Google Translate-named Te Rum.

Feeling very uninspired by TA at the moment, so I have nothing more to say for now. Over to you!

Yes it was when she talked to Kirsty about how she wanted out of the relationship. I remember people commenting on the tmi!

I'm not sure I could bear the angst of Helen finding out she’s pregnant and then being mother to 3 children. Also Lee has been written out so can’t see it happening.

let’s have a nice SL with Kirsty. Perhaps she will realise what a selfish cow Helen is when she herself needs support

Kirsty would be a great Mum and do lots of outdoorsy woodsy stuff with them.

I heard her say that there was no spark any more or WTTE, but not that there had been no sex.

I remember her complaining that whereas she used not to be able to wait to see Lee, she no longer felt that way, and thinking "well, love, mostly that tends to happen after you've been with someone for a few years and stop being quite so much in lust with them...."

I suppose I should have assumed that if Helen didn't feel like it, that would be that for any chance of sex ever happening. But I didn't, possibly because I often fail to allow for Helen's complete self-absorption and complete lack of interest in how anyone else might feel.

(Or perhaps as with her having run screaming from the idea of sex at all when they were just getting together, at which time I didn't think it terribly likely that a bloke would get together with someone who had made it plain that if he was to be with her he would be expected to stay celibate for the rest of time, I failed to give particular credence to people saying "ah well they haven't had any sex for months" when I had not heard that actually being said.)

I'll go and have a listen to the episodes in which she and Kirsty talked to each other just before she gave Lee the push, and see if I can find any definite "we haven't had sex for ages" remark, though. Helen being Helen, I might easily have thought she was exaggerating for effect. There are only about three scenes I will need to go through, or put myself through, after all.

Or you could just let this one slide?

Usha always sounds a bit..sleepy to me. Her voice drags. It wasn’t her tone but the language she used, something about Jakob being masterful and “I’m not the only woman in the village who thinks so”. Um, ok.

Imagine if Alan spoke about another woman like that!

Got it, I think. On 20th October Helen told Kirsty not to talk about romantic, and said that her relationship with Lee had not been romantic for a very long time, which I did not interpret as meaning that it had not been sexual for a very long time. I took it as a continuation of her complaint that he no longer made her pulse race, or wtte. After all, I doubt she would have said that her relationship with Rob remained romantic, but it was definitely sexual.

She was busy in that conversation telling Kirsty that if Lee had been there instead of in San Francisco it would all have been even more complicated. It wasn't about sex at that point at all; it was about her having got bored and fed up with Lee.

BBC synopsis:
Helen admits to Kirsty she’s not in a hurry to get home. Kirsty reminds Helen of how much she missed Lee when he went to San Francisco but Helen’s not sure that’s really true. If she’s honest, she finds things easier to cope with when Lee’s not around. Added to that their relationship hasn’t felt romantic for a very long time. Kirsty suggests ways Helen and Lee could repair things but Helen’s not convinced anything will work. Kirsty implores her to talk to Lee.

No mention of sex from the BBC: are they (is she meant to be) too mealy-mouthed to say sex if that was what she meant? They haven't hesitated to use the word "sex" when that was the one they meant if it was Pip, or Rex, or Toby, or Ruairi or Ian or Adam.

Or there is the after-broadcast synopsis for that day:
Kirsty points out that is hardly fair on Lee, because it's always less complicated when you're not romantically involved with someone; Helen tells her not to say romantically, because her relationship with Lee hasn't been that for a very long time.

"Romantically" and "sexually" just don't seem to me to be synonyms in this context.

You're right @AskingQuestionsAllTheTime but it was crystal clear from the tone IMO that she meant sex. She dropped her voice to quiet after Kirsty said "romantically" and said "don't say that... it's not been that for a very long time".

She clearly didn't mean affection etc.

I really did not hear her saying, or even implying, that they had not had sex for months. Sorry.

After the comment from Helen near the beginning of the scene that "I remember when I was desperate to get home to see Lee, but right now I just fantasise about going home to an empty house and being blissfully alone" and some back and forth (during none of which sex was mentioned, and we know Helen is not shy of saying "sex" in front of Kirsty: who can forget the toe-curling "mind-blowing sex" interlude?), Kirsty said that she thought Helen wasn't being fair to Lee and "It's always less complicated when you're not in a relationship with someone, like, romantically involved with them" and Helen dropped her voice to mutter "oh, don't say that" (in the same voice and undertone in which she'd earlier said that Lee was always being hurt about something), after which Kirsty said "What, 'romantically'?" and Helen said "it's not been that for a very long time." Meaning, in my simple world, that she had not felt romantic about him for a long time, not that they had not had sex for a long time.

Definitely!

I think I’ve probably assumed they wouldn’t be having sex after the scene when she was traumatised by Rob returning, and she panicked at the beginning and couldn’t do it. Not that I’ve given it a whole lot of thought, but I was guessing that was the beginning of the end. I assumed though at the time that the storyline would be about her being able to recover now she had a good and kind man, not getting rid of him entirely.

Well they obviously weren’t going to talk about sex openly on the archers but it was certainly heavily implied in the way it was said

yawn to Pip and Stella dancing. And what was that whole scene with Jill? Inter generational conflict?

how weird is Harry! If Harry really wanted to meet Chris he should have spoken to Alice rather than coming up with a weird plan. It’s disrespectful to Alice. She should be involved in any meeting.

they’ve been dating for a fortnight but it’s not a fling

’i don’t want you to think I’m taking your place’ - after 2 bloody weeks!! This is not going to end well.

Have I missed something? I thought Alice told Chris she hadn’t mentioned her drinking or rehab with Harry. Has he been doing some digging somewhere else!

Well, that was just silly!

And the sheer ridiculousness of the SW proposing that Chris wouldn’t have googled his new client (even if we accept that he hadn’t heard of him before, which no one does) beggars belief. Awful, clumsy writing.

Why are they going about things in this determinedly twisty and nonsensical way? Just to add drama where no more is needed?

Bruisername
Well they obviously weren’t going to talk about sex openly on the archers

Except that Helen and Kirsty have done so before, explicitly.

If I were Natasha I wouldn't NEED any contraception, because 18-month-old twins.

She did tell him and he said he knew all about alcoholism because he had a friend who had it.

In that case I think he is an alcoholic.

He was delighted because he got his own way.(Chris with Alice getting pregnant that is)

I actually didn’t get mega weird and toxic vibes from Harry - I think it was a stupid idea to try to meet Chris but from a SW POV it did mean the meeting happened much more quickly than it otherwise would have. I have hope that Harry will just be a nice chap and that he and Alice have a nice normal relationship, without a change in sexuality, massive age gap, manufactured drama, domestic abuse, or Superman figurines…

I think retirement for Patricia Greene is way overdue. It's quite uncomfortable listening to her now.

And Kirsty should get together with Patrick, who has adored her for years.

Farming Today has just plugged Gagriculture and interviewed Jeremy Howe and Jasper Carrott. Tonight's the night!

Ah, thanks @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g! I’ve been wide awake and deleting emails since about 5.30 but hadn’t got round to turning on R4.

Will catch up now!

Am probably being dense here but who's Patrick??

And what's WTTE?

Yes the Jill stuff was uncomfortable listening.

@JanglyBeads think WTTE is "words to that effect?"

I couldn't remember who Patick was either although I recalled the name so I looked him up on TA website. He is single, works for the Borsetshire Wildlife Trust and advised on several projects Kirsty worked on. He's also a talented pianist. They have had a platonic friendship for a while although I can't remember when he last appeared.

The actor who plays him is a nice looking chap. If Patrick looks like him Kirsty certainly could do worse. And surely if she were to have a child a stable relationship with Patrick, with their shared interests in wildlife would be far better than being presumably a single mum in her forties bringing up a child fathered by the exciting but fly-by-night Erik?

@misty123456 I think you're right. I thought so when Alice told Harry about her alcoholism. There is no 'friend'; it's Harry himself. And his torturous meeting with Chris was to scope out how stable the ex side of things was. I'm assuming he and Bryony broke up because of the drinking.