Archers thread #152: The Dog Days of Summer in Ambridge! Rabid rants, tearoom dogfight, Bully Dog George gets it all on camera. Is Lone wolf Rob waiting in the woods? Discuss The Archers here!

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd love a son like George, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Starting this new thread a bit early, as we're near the end of the last thread and I'm out all day today. As last night's episode was a banger, I thought I'd better ensure discussion can continue seamlessly!

The original idea for a dog theme for this thread came from the death of poor Weaver. RIP. The Dog Days of summer are associated with storms and the silly season, so quite appropriate for The Archers at the moment! They may technically be over now, as it's all to do with the heliacal rising of the Dog Star, Sirius (no, me neither), but apparently the Anglo-Saxons considered they lasted into September (thank you, Wikipedia), so that will do for me.

So - what next for Helen, Henry and Jack? Surely even the Bridge Farm Archers will see that she needs professional help? After her outburst the other night they might finally grasp that Henry could do with some too. All very grim.

On the lighter side (perhaps), whither Pip and Stella?

Over to you!

Helen pre Ron/Rob - clicky hips as a baby. Completely cured, I think. Last time I mentioned this Asking supplied some details I'd not known, which I think were that Pat removed the cast too early and was consumed with guilt that she'd done Helen lasting damage. That would explain a lot.

Helen went to a specialist dairy/cheesemaking college after school and did one or two placements elsewhere. I think it was during that time that John died. There had been tension in the family immediately prior to the accident because John when younger had got involved with Sharon Richards, who was older than he was, and had a very young child (Kylie Horrobin), whose father was Clive Horrobin, armed robber and general scumbag. (Later arsonist and attempted murderer too.) Clive is brother to Susan and Tracy, and currently in prison, I think. Clive had got bored with family life very soon after Kylie was born and left Sharon to it. John and Sharon didn't last long the first time, but some time later when John was in a steady relationship with a nanny from Birmingham, Hayley, who'd moved to Ambridge for work, Sharon re-appeared and she and John had a fling. (Decades later we learned that Johnnie, Sharon's son, was the result, and he moved to the farm and did an apprenticeship. Sadly, he has been silent for a long time and is currently sailing around the world on a training ship.)

Anyway, Hayley found about John and Sharon and broke things off. John realised it was Hayley he really wanted and proposed marriage, which Hayley refused. It was while he was still very upset about all of this that he went out on the tractor and had the accident. Naturally there was a lot of guilt from everyone left behind.

John had recently set up a pig business at Bridge Farm. In the aftermath of his death Hayley and Tom (then about 16, I think) tried to keep the pig business going. Helen returned from college and was extremely high-handed about Hayley's involvement - basically sent her packing, on the grounds that she was trying to take something that belonged to the family. Pat became clinically depressed and went away for a time to a convent in Wales (you might not know this, but Pat is Welsh - no, not a trace of an accent now). Helen took a break from her studies to run the dairy in Pat's absence and managed to rub everybody up the wrong way.

The eating disorder must have been after that, but I can't remember much about the details. Or maybe it was after the next bit. Did she have in-patient treatment? Can't remember now.

Anyway, in the early 2000s she got involved with Greg, a gamekeeper, much older than she was, very bad divorce in the background, extremely depressed about the loss of a relationship with his two daughters. That didn't go well. Eventually he killed himself, not long after Helen had told him she wanted a break to work out how she felt about the relationship.

The incident Asking mentioned above came after that, I think - Helen was drinking too much and one evening insisted on driving back from Borchester while over the limit. She knocked Mike Tucker (Roy's dad) over and he was injured. She got Tom to say he was driving because he hadn't been drinking and would pass a breathalyser. Tom took a lot of flak for that and Helen eventually confessed to Mike Tucker, who was surprisingly forgiving, and didn't tell the police. Neither did Helen. I don't know if she told Pat and Tony, who have always had it in for Tom. Helen is the Golden Child.

At some point after that, one of Greg's daughters ill-advisedly came to live in Ambridge for a bit and shared the flat over the post office with Helen. It belonged to Helen's grandma, Peggy Woolley, who rented it to Helen ahead of more deserving candidates because Helen took a fancy to having her own place instead of living at Bridge Farm. Helen tried to control Annette's life and was oblivious to the fact that her boyfriend of the time had coerced Annette into sex. Annette became pregnant. When Helen found out, she tried to persuade Annette to have the baby and let Helen adopt it. Annette very wisely left the area so she could have a termination. In the aftermath, Helen decided that she wanted to have a child as a single woman and went to a fertility clinic where she became pregnant on the first attempt. Tony was aghast and that led to a coolness between them which ended when Henry was born on 2nd January 2011.

Thanks for reading, if you got this far!

That’s a good summary! Thank you!

ultimately this is fiction and she is a good character for that!!

I was very happy last night to hear Susan not leaping to George's defence. I had really hoped that Emma would see the light after the slag comment and then the whole thing with Rob/Henry. Clearly not.

I don't share the hatred of Helen. I agree that she is often dislikeable but I think she is just very damaged by all of the things that have happened to her.

Welcome to listening, @ArtichokeAardvark! I’m kind of excited for you - partly because the entire Ambridge backstory is so hugely compelling.

Some of us () have been listening since our 1960s childhoods (your mother has been wonderfully restrained in not forcing it upon you!) and, for me at least, the value of present day episodes is entirely based on how they rely on and reference the decades of individual and collective Ambridge history.

The BBC site … exists. No one there seems to care much about keeping it up to date, so some long gone characters are still in the character list while newer ones are missing. But outside of this thread it’s a good place to start. If you explore the site you’ll find some potted histories of important events too.

BBC The Archers. Characters.

I thought the George conversation between Oliver and Neil was interesting - both have his number.

I am curious what is going to end up happening with Hannah. Do you think Neil will offer to put her up!

Wow, thank you @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g! So much to pick over there 😁.

I always remember my mum listening to the Archers in the car (she was a 2pm catch up person) and feeling very bored as I had to sit silently for 15minutes. I'm now mid-30s and living in a sleepy village myself and have discovered how compelling it actually is!

My Dad and his sister were big Archers fans when we were growing up and I found it boring too. We used to laugh at him for being such an Archer's Addict (he had an Archer's t-shirt that said dum-de-dum-de-dum-de-dum on it 😂)
I couldn't believe it when my own Archer's addiction crept up on me. It was purely by accident that the omnibus came on while I was driving somewhere and I got so invested in the narratives I just kept listening. It also opened me up to audiobooks too and helped me realise how much I love listening to a story. I can't put it down now! Saying that, I wish I could fast forward through this Rob storyline. It's too tense 😬

I'm another one who absolutely loathed The Archers as a child but found my way back to it in my early 20s when the Sunday omnibus was a good companion to a hangover or a lie in.

30ish years later and I'm still addicted!

I come from a non-Archers family. Nobody listened as a child. I know - what can I say? I was culturally deprived! I found it myself when I was a student back in the 80s and been listening, mostly avidly but with some breaks, ever since.

What is in her favour, however, is that she has kept the boys well away from him. So he can argue that she doesn't genuinely think he is a danger to her, but that won't work in relation to Jack and Henry.

True @JanieEyre and the secret County Show meeting with a child with whom he has no legal tie looks appalling, in terms of his pushing boundaries...

Where's Anna the all rounder barrister when you need her?!

I can see the next physical DV storyline being about George. He is just the sort of person to beat a woman and whinge that it's all her fault, she made him do it because she disrespected him, or similar rubbish.

Perhaps his mum?

On the family indoctrination, I listened from a child because my mum did. But one of our favourite things is to talk about the story lines as though they are real people and get my teenage dd hooked only for her to say 'oh bloody hell! This is the Archers you're talking about, isn't it!' 😀

My Mum got me into the Archers - she was an omnibus listener, so when we'd both caught up we would discuss what had happened the previous week. I really missed that when she died.

Susan was remarkably sensible, although her telling Emma not to gossip was funny. Even before her Radio Borsetshire stint, she was the unofficial Radio Ambridge.

Emma is absolutely horrible in her rabid defence of her vile son. I know we all stick up for our children, but he's been beyond the pale and the worse he gets, the more she doubles down.

If one of my sons was even a smidgeon like George I would be thoroughly ashamed.

Sussurations
The way she spoke to Ian last week and her reaction to Tom & Ian’s concern were great examples of her everyday horrible way of treating people. Her bad behaviour is always excused by others because she’s busy, under pressure, had a hard time etc. I don’t care how hard a time someone is having, you don’t speak to a friend like that.

This so well sums up how I see Helen as always treating others: it was recently exemplified by her telling Lee that his not being able to be at his daughter's birthday party had been days ago, surely he should be over it by now...

How does her having been raped excuse such a casual lack of care about someone she's supposed to care about? He is her lover! She lives with him! He surely ought to get at least a smidgeon of consideration or sympathy from her? But no, his being upset was not convenient for her so she wanted him to stop it and pay attention to her. Only her feelings, problems, whatever, are worthy of consideration as far as she is concerned: she has not the least empathy or understanding in her for anyone but herself. It's pretty unlikeable.

That started when John died in the accident and Helen spoke for the first time: she showed no understanding of or care about her mother's pain over that at all. In fact she was impatient and unpleasant about Pat having a nervous breakdown and clinical depression as a result of it: I think the words "pull yourself together" may even have been used, and that was certainly the attitude she displayed.

I really wish Sean O'Connor had not selected her to be his victim. It tends to mean that people gloss over the fact that everyone else in her orbit, particularly her family but also her two friends, Ian and Kirsty, had been her victims for years and years before that.

She’s the epitome of solipsistic behaviour, for sure.

Helen is far from perfect - like a RL person she’s the product of events that have happened in her life. I’ve always seen her as someone who would have liked to recreate her own happy family - like the one she grew up in before John’s death. She’s not been easily free to go out into the world and do that - tied to the family farm in the Ambridge force field for her job and home (and childcare and all the other support she gets). She was fearful of missing the boat as a mother so she had Henry, then she was delighted to have what she saw as a father figure for him in Ron. She has parents who walk on eggshells around her for fear of triggering her eating disorder (now in evidence again imo). Yes she’s made mistakes, but I don’t see how anyone can take George’s side over hers. What Knob did to her was horrific - I can’t begin to imagine how she must feel now that he has turned up again (I can hardly bear to listen to it). I want her to get some help for herself and Henry and I want Knob to die asap (I wish they’d never brought him back)- unfortunately I think he may end up being shot with Pat’s randomly mentioned shotgun so Bridge Farm will never be free of his legacy.

what was Ron’s prognosis? Are we into the final weeks yet? He doesn’t seem that weak at the moment—is he still allowed to drive and if not, how’d he get to the country show and the swimming pool?

I really hate the way this has been written so the only way out for them os through his death.

I know escaping an abuser isn’t easy but it would be nice if they could reflect more realistic events (which him dragging her through the courts is - but his premature death will neatly wrap it all up)

I certainly don’t take George’s side - he’s skin-crawlingly awful and his exultant goading of Helen was horrible to hear. I also despair of the way Emmur knows there’s something very, very amiss with her son, but she just cannot stop herself wading in belligerently to his defence the instant anyone else dares criticise him in any way. Even when she knows they’re right.

But….but…Helen is so hard to warm to. I think she’s in terrible straits mentally right now and she desperately needs proper professional help, but the chances of her accepting it even if it were offered are pretty much zero. She must always be right about everything. And yes, that may be (most probably is) hiding a deep conviction of her own unworthiness, but she can’t ever let anyone see that, so in comes the utter rigidity and insistence on control. She’s always been like that as far back as I can remember.

I remember joining these threads a few years ago and realising there were two people, women, that were pretty despised - Helen and Pip. Tom seems to be a close third.

I like Helen as a character. She’s nuanced and so we can dedicate thread after thread about her! Yes, things seem to happen to her but they have to happen to someone in a soap.

When she’s chatting away about cheese and laughing with Kirsty about Erik she’s actually quite likeable. And she took an excellent position re Nova and Selen’s modelling career. My main objections are that she treats her employees like Victorian servants and thought that going out with/living with the WW was a good idea. Also I can never understand why she wants to live in suburbia on Brookside Close built on her own farmland. She should have built her own house but anyways…apart from that, I am always happy to listen to her…

*re when she is chatting about cheese, I am not referring to the latest cheese judging scandal or GG cheese supplier-gate