Archers thread #152: The Dog Days of Summer in Ambridge! Rabid rants, tearoom dogfight, Bully Dog George gets it all on camera. Is Lone wolf Rob waiting in the woods? Discuss The Archers here!

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd love a son like George, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Starting this new thread a bit early, as we're near the end of the last thread and I'm out all day today. As last night's episode was a banger, I thought I'd better ensure discussion can continue seamlessly!

The original idea for a dog theme for this thread came from the death of poor Weaver. RIP. The Dog Days of summer are associated with storms and the silly season, so quite appropriate for The Archers at the moment! They may technically be over now, as it's all to do with the heliacal rising of the Dog Star, Sirius (no, me neither), but apparently the Anglo-Saxons considered they lasted into September (thank you, Wikipedia), so that will do for me.

So - what next for Helen, Henry and Jack? Surely even the Bridge Farm Archers will see that she needs professional help? After her outburst the other night they might finally grasp that Henry could do with some too. All very grim.

On the lighter side (perhaps), whither Pip and Stella?

Over to you!

The problem is @LillianGishthat Helen has breached it too and that makes it much less likely to be enforced/continued

I don't think that's correct. The non-molestation order doesn't work both ways.

@Bruisername , there have been other violent men in The Archers. They weren't domestic violence storylines. AFAIK it's not DV unless it happens to a co-habiting couple.
I'm not sure who would have been a more 'appropriate' victim. Not many couples to choose from. Rob and Helen are both acted by actors with the range to do it well.

@Bruisername , welcome aboard.
@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g , thanks for the new thread.

@MiniHector - weren't both Shula and Debbie beaten up by Simon Pemberton when they each dated him?

They were.

Correction: ... it's not DV unless it happens to a co-habiting/married couple.

Being beaten up by a partner you do not share an abode with is assault.

MiniHector
I'm not sure who would have been a more 'appropriate' victim. Not many couples to choose from. Rob and Helen are both acted by actors with the range to do it well.

They could have gone with him being very popular when he arrived, and abusing the wife he already had when Helen set her sights on him. The people of Ambridge gradually realising that Jess always wore high necks and long sleeves even in the height of summer, and that when he was in the room she only spoke when he spoke to her, and so on, could have been very effective. It would have been a lot more interesting to be in the position of the outside observer trying to work out what was going on, rather than being effectively forced into the middle of the dysfunctional relationship. It might even have meant that people who are not being abused were helped to notice if other people were being.

The thing that was really wrong with the whole storyline in the end though, was that Rob was eventually revealed to have been an abusive rapist of whom Jess was terrified too; but when she came to Ambridge she was quite clearly not in the slightest afraid of him, and in fact seemed to bully him so much that I thought they were well-matched. And when she came back pregnant to confront Helen she didn't say, as I think anyone who had escaped such a relationship would have been likely to do, "You want him, you have him. I'm well off out of it!"

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime - Didn't the then-editor admit they intended him to be the New Brian, a womanising lothario, then heard about the campaign to make Coercive Control a crime and pivoted to that plot instead?

I'm sure I remember him doing interviews explaining the inconsistency.

Rob Titchener was introduced by Vanessa Whitburn, who intended him to be a younger replacement for Brian.

I was at a BBC organised event at Hampton Court and the subsequent editor and Timothy Watson both said this. I have a feeling Charles Collingwood was also there and made a joke about not being ready to be replaced yet, but that may have been on another occasion.

It was Whitburn's successor who decided to turn Rob into an abuser and rapist instead. He said this was because he heard Helen and Rob meet on air and was impressed by the chemistry between them. Tim Stimpson also related having had a long talk with that editor about how that could be used, and how they dreamt up Rob#2 together.

It was never about coercive control really. It was about abusing women. That editor also wrote Handsome Brute: The Story of a Ladykiller, about someone who raped and murdered women. And he said that what had got him really interested in The Archers was
"When Simon Pemberton slapped Debbie Aldridge in the face, it was brilliant. I was stunned. I couldn’t believe it was happening on my wireless.” (He either meant "slapped Shula in the face", or he hesitated to say "beat Debbie Aldridge up so she was confined to bed for several days".)

We were told repeatedly that the storyline was to be about the new law on coercive control, and the charities who helped with the stories were told this; then he had Helen stab Rob instead of Rob being prosecuted for the new crime, and the charities backed away and didn't say another word about how great and how realistic the storyline was.

@BeatriceBatchelor both nmo and undertakings can be made against both parties to the application. We know this one is only against Ron but on the basis that Hellin didn't want to see him or contact him. She then sought contact with him at the teashop meeting and agreed to contact with him at the hospital. She's also contacted Miles. Makes it much more difficult for her to now go back to Court and say "that teashop contact was OK but swimming pool contact wasn't so throw the book at him." He's done her up like a kipper...

Yes that’s what I thought asking questions.

I do find the perception of Helen by people is very odd and extraordinarily unsympathetic. Yes, she's done a few unpleasant things- but who hasn't in the past 25 years of their lives? And this idea that she somehow seduced the innocent wide eyed Rob is weird! And unhinged? Seriously? Yes, she lost her temper with George but who wouldn't? Are only completely pure, angelic women worthy of sympathy?

I do not subscribe to the idea that merely them being female is a free pass to everyone else totally ignoring the nastiness of an individual.

If a woman is nasty, it is a great deal better to tell the truth about it. Pretending she is a saint and martyr does nobody any favours, not even her in the long run since she is likely to end up a nasty bit of work like Helen and become friendless.

Helen has been nasty for twenty-five years to my knowledge, and I am not going to pretend otherwise because she has also been raped.

My photo from the event at Hampton Court (September 2016). I can’t be certain but I am fairly sure that CC was there and it is he in the beige blazer on the right.

Yep

Yep

Aanyway, back to the programme. Have we ever heard Helen talk about what she has told Henry about being donor-conceived? I think it’s fairly clear that he knows, but would be interesting to hear his and her takes on it.

Pip and Stella is a funny one. I like Stella, would not wish Pip on her!

It’s a bit gruesome but I did rather enjoy George taking up the story of Baz the dog in his efforts to brand Ed a dog serial killer, it was one of those storylines that I had long forgotten and it is nice when the archives are actually used properly!

If Helen hasn’t told him how he was conceived then she has been really stupid - it’s obviously common knowledge in the village from what George said so she would be foolish to risk him finding out that way

I agree that the George storyline could be a really long burner. He's not the next Ron. Ron was the master of manipulation and coercion. He had nearly everyone in the village convinced he was Mr nice guy until the truth finally came out. Whereas as George is swiftly showing the entire village what he's like. Ron wouldn't have had an outburst in public like that, he would have kept cool and made it look like Helen was confused somehow.

I actually think the person most at risk from George in the long run is Emma. I can imagine, a future where George has burnt every single last bridge in Ambridge. Every one knows who he is and not to trust him. He can't get a girlfriend. Can't get a job. No money for a place of his own. A complete down and out. Even his "loser" mate Brad who he always used to look down on has it all sorted. The only person left who still gives George the time of day is Emma. Maybe at some point even Ed can't take it anymore and leaves because she chose protecting George over her marriage. And so Emma is left with no one to protect her from her own angry, woman-hating, incel son....

Too dark? 🤔🤣

"Pretending she is a saint and martyr does nobody any favours, not even her in the long run since she is likely to end up a nasty bit of work like Helen " I'm not pretending she's a saint or a martyr. What I M saying is that most of us have done some pretty shit things in the last 25 years. And some pretty shit things have happened to her. She gets less slack cut for her than any other character. Roy was an actual racist, for example!

How long is will going to stay living with George before that falls apart?

Life of crime because no one will give him a chance and it’s everyone else’s fault. Will Emma repeat her mothers mistakes?

No, I said that I was sure she had told him that he was donor-conceived. I meant that it would be interesting to hear how and when she explained it to him and what his feelings about it were.

Oh yes - he’s had quite a confusing childhood in that respect with 2 step fathers and an unknown biological father. I suppose Tony has been a steady male role model in his life

Roy associated with some racist thugs when he was in his teens, 28 years ago. He told them where Usha lived, which was extremely stupid. Once he realised what these thugs were capable of (they attacked Usha outside her home) he was horrified. He may have dobbed them in to the police, I can't remember for sure. He broke off all contact with them, apologised to Usha, and has led a blameless life since, except for his SW-driven inexplicable affair with Elizabeth while still married to the lovely and much-missed Hayley.

I've just caught up with yesterdays episode. Goodness. I'm glad I've only got 17 minutes until the next episode!

Thank you, ElthamLemur! I wasn't sure enough to state it definitely, but I did think he was. And Carole Boyd.