Archers thread #152: The Dog Days of Summer in Ambridge! Rabid rants, tearoom dogfight, Bully Dog George gets it all on camera. Is Lone wolf Rob waiting in the woods? Discuss The Archers here!

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd love a son like George, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Starting this new thread a bit early, as we're near the end of the last thread and I'm out all day today. As last night's episode was a banger, I thought I'd better ensure discussion can continue seamlessly!

The original idea for a dog theme for this thread came from the death of poor Weaver. RIP. The Dog Days of summer are associated with storms and the silly season, so quite appropriate for The Archers at the moment! They may technically be over now, as it's all to do with the heliacal rising of the Dog Star, Sirius (no, me neither), but apparently the Anglo-Saxons considered they lasted into September (thank you, Wikipedia), so that will do for me.

So - what next for Helen, Henry and Jack? Surely even the Bridge Farm Archers will see that she needs professional help? After her outburst the other night they might finally grasp that Henry could do with some too. All very grim.

On the lighter side (perhaps), whither Pip and Stella?

Over to you!

Pandering to Helen has never been a good thing, rape or no rape. As far as I know I did not say that she did deserve that; just that this having happened to her does not excuse all her nasty behaviour before it had happened to her.

Constantly giving anyone a free pass to be as vile as they feel like really is not doing them any favours anyway. It leads to imbecilic behaviour like that of Helen last night: because she has never been in any way prevented from doing whatever she wants to, nor told off for it afterwards but instead apologised to by the victim of her spite and told by everyone that whatever it was "wasn't her fault", she went her rope on impulse and ended up doing herself a great deal more harm than she did the person she attacked in such an intemperate and unconsidered way.

Incidentally, I regard drunk-driving leading to a hit-and-run which hospitalises the victim, then allowing someone else to take the blame for the accident and claim they were driving instead of you, as being behaviour so disgusting that "nasty" doesn't even start to cover it.

Thoroughly disappointed in Emmurr. At the the end of the tearoom debacle, her tone in speaking to George hinted at a dressing down, but her conversation with Susan showed no such thing had happened.

Susan was on the money.

Didn't Stella go on a date with Rex a while back or have I misremembered

Hellin and Emma are both beset with guilt having belatedly realised that their past choices/decisions have had far-reaching effects on their respective sons.

The whole toxic masculinity thing is quite a current issue so won't be at all surprised to see them taking George down that route. Maybe he'll go off to Romania for a while to keep company with Andrew Tate.

Wasn't that Hannah??

George HAS to have been influenced heavily by Andrew Tate. He must have been.

Good on Susan for telling Emma a few home truths. She still can't bear to see it, can she?

Posting to bookmark the new thread.

Excellent thread title, as per.

BOOP for Susan reminding Emmur that she herself slapped the poor maligned and misunderstood George recently!

A common confusion! Several of us mix them up not infrequently…

Wasn't she about to go to college to get a catering or business qualification when she got pregnant with George?

I do have to agree with @CurlewKate i think the Helen hatred on this thread is very extreme. It’s quite uncomfortable to read some of the bordering-on—victim-blaming sometimes.

I really really wanted to slap George’s face during that row. What he said was just so nasty, spiteful, misogynistic. Ugh he’s vile. Twisting Helen’s words, taunting her, winding her up. He reminded me of Rob.

Emma is just such a one dimensional character now. Even Susan has more nuance than her!

‘Victim-blaming’ is one of those supposedly top-trumps discussion-stoppers: shut up and #bekiiind, even if the ‘victim’ is a bloody fool or worse. Well, bollocks to that.
Believing that Helen is a deeply unpleasant individual with all the balanced judgment of a crack-addled wolverine doesn’t in any way exculpate Rob, it just makes contemplating her present situation all the more enjoyable.

I don't think Helen is deeply unpleasant. Her extreme incidents are very extreme but she has plenty of air time when she's reasonable. Lately she's been reacting oddly to things because of the pressure of Ron being back. This was referenced by Susan in the dairy last night.

She has (to the outside world) made some questionable life choices but who of us knows how we would react after such an abusive relationship?

Finally, enjoying her current situation is a bit twisted.

It’s making very good radio, and I am fascinated to see how George develops. His character has been long in the making. As has been the whole Helen, Henry, Jack saga. All of them shaking Ambridge to the core probably (and still sore about Nigel)

*properly
*am still sore

Placemarking! I'm an Archers newbie, been listening for a few weeks now. Is there anywhere that I can find a full backstory for each character? Listening to the last couple of episodes I've been fully on Helen's side (I knew the Rob storyline already as my mum has been listening for decades!) but then looking at this thread it seems she's not the victim she's painted after all!

I think the radio 4 website will have more info.

helen is definitely a victim. She’s also an arse though

when It comes to Rob she is the victim though. Yes she’s not the nicest character around but to suggest she somehow deserves her treatment from him is precisely why the dv story didn’t work - she isn’t a perfect victim but she is still a victim and we should be trying to avoid ‘she was asking for it’

and tbh - I don’t see what she did wrong with George. Yes she shouldn’t have done it but isn’t that understandable? If it had been Kirsty ripping him a new one she would have been cheered

I will raise my head above the parapet (I love these threads and used to be a minor Mustardlander) to say that I think Helen is a deeply unpleasant person.

The way she spoke to Ian last week and her reaction to Tom & Ian’s concern were great examples of her everyday horrible way of treating people. Her bad behaviour is always excused by others because she’s busy, under pressure, had a hard time etc. I don’t care how hard a time someone is having, you don’t speak to a friend like that.

She was awful about Adil and the cheese as well - she never takes responsibility for the consequences of her behaviour and her parents haven’t ever encouraged her to as far as I can tell.

Now the latest catastrophe is all George’s fault. Yes, George is appalling but in this instance his behaviour seems to have been reasonably well motivated, if extremely misguided. She could have found out the truth from Henry and George (and Emma) but instead has made the situation immeasurably worse.

In real life I would have sympathy for what she’s been through (and of course nobody ‘deserves’ to be abused, let alone raped) but that’s not what’s made her so horrible - she’s been like that as far back as I can remember. It’s made things worse though, as others are even more afraid to call out her bad behaviour, and she’s increasingly erratic and confused, and won’t seek help.

Thanks for coming to my Helen TED talk!

I actually think that is why it worked so well - she isn’t perfect, but watching (listening ) to it all play out was gripping

I don't know much about Helen pre Ron storyline. Was she as unpleasant before?
Wasn't she the reasonable ish one in the Tom Tash sellout storyline (I could be mis remembering).

She's in too deep now to see rationality in anything and needs some professional help. However how much of her behaviour recently is down to the stress she's been under?

but she acknowledged to Pat that she shouldn’t have shouted at George. Yes it’s not all his fault but I would be furious with him in her position too.

she is an unpleasant character overall but that doesn’t mean every single action is mean sororities or nasty. There has to be some nuance there.

i assume Emma is hated as much as she is deeply unpleasant too

Welcome, @ArtichokeAardvark! If your mum is a long-term listener, you'll know that you can check out of Ambridge any time you like, but you can never leave ....

Backstories - the collective memories here contain a lot you might fine useful. Asking could quite easily be the official archivist, as she has chapter and verse on everything. Ask away!

George is loathsome, and very obviously so. Only a mother could love George, and frankly if I were his mother, I'd not only be finding him extremely hard to love, I'd be full of self-loathing too, wondering where I'd gone wrong.

Helen is a bit more complicated because the Bridge Farm Archers have been through a lot. Helen's older brother John was killed in a tractor accident as a young man and in many ways none of them have ever got over that. Everyone tiptoes around Helen in particular, because she has an eating disorder and was really quite ill for a while some years back. She also has a long track record of getting involved with unsuitable men, which has caused her a lot of grief. Lee is the first decent non-messed up man I can recall her taking up with, and even he has a non-amicable divorce in the background, meaning Helen has had to take on the role of stepmother to his two daughters.

I'm not making excuses for Helen here. I don't hate her. She's an interesting character (and very well acted). But she's not likeable. I can't imagine choosing to be chummy with her. Kirsty is a saint for putting up with her.

That was a very balanced review thank you @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g. I agree rgat Helen is unlikable. She gets right on my last nerve. But she is a women on the edge in an extremely stressful and triggering situation and I do find the way she gets spoken about here quite difficult to read. I’m sorry if you honk that means I’m trying to shut the conversation down @RegimentalSturgeon. It certainly wasn’t my intention and it Certainly didn’t work! 😁 I was rather amazed at the vehement reaction to Helen when George, who was in my opinion far more loathsome, got away relatively unscathed! And yes I do think the “she’s so vile I have no sympathy”, bringing up things that happened 25 years go, does amount to nigh-on victim blaming. It’s uncomfortable to read.

Anyway, I think Susan and Neil have both now seen the light with regards to George and I hope he’ll get a proper dressing down soon.

Yes I agree, Emmur is actively unpleasant. Really nasty. With none of the comic nuance of Susan. Susan in contrast is mellowing.