Archers thread #149: This is not a drill, it’s a plot device. Here’s hoping for Stella-r rows in Ambridge. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think George Grundy's bantz make him a great laugh and totally harmless to women, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks for title suggestions - @FallonsNewCoat started us off with Drilling down OR What’s the drill?: So many jobs hanging in the balance - what’s planned for Adam, Stella, Freddie and horrible George?, @OverArmour's suggestion was ‘Drilling down on less than Stella-r performances and who will be a pig in muck’ and @TeenDivided contributed the laserdrill focussed Lets drill into plot holes and hope George gets his comeuppance. I went for a bit of all of that. The phrase at the back of my head, which I am very pleased to have tracked down, was from one of my favourite film franchises where the character Conklin says in Jason Bourne's memory This is not a drill, soldier. We clear on that? This is a live project. You are go. Training is over. Training is over. Well, that's us, troops. Training is over, discussing The Archers is a live project, and it's our job to drill down into all aspects of what we hear.

On the last thread, people were discussing how unrealistic the portrayal of mental health problems is on TA. I wholeheartedly agree, but I suppose they don't feel they can tackle long-running slow burn storylines that often. They made a great effort with Jack Woolley's Alzheimer's. Other than that, I don't recall anybody having a recurring illness that's been portrayed realistically (and actually that goes for physical conditions as well). Most things clear up and are hardly mentioned again. Sticking just to mental illness, Pat had depression after John died, Mike Tucker had a bad bout of depression, so did Elizabeth. Helen's ED may or may not be about to re-appear, but nobody's mentioning it. Ben's rapid-onset depresssion recently led to a psychotic episode but now he's fine, not least because he got prompt, skilled and appropriate treatment on the NHS, unlike most of the UK. This is one area where I feel they shouldn't even attempt it if they can't do it in a way that reflects the reality of what most of us experience, for ourselves and our loved ones.

Anyway, with that off my chest - over to you!

But he could have done with a solicitor to tell him how likely that was and therefore whether to accept the caution, rather than be frightened into it by the police.

And back to Lee - did you notice the solicitor say that the the police were trying to frighten Lee into a community resolution by talking about the maximum sentence not the likely sentence?

@MereDintofPandiculation yes sorry I was agreeing with you- but my words aren't going well today! As you were!

Yes, I knew you were agreeing with me!Just highlighting that it really was important that he had a solicitor

re intent: not only do you not need intent for manslaughter, you must not have intent. If you have intent it's not manslaughter, it's murder.

Manslaughter is one of those words that can be split in a creepy way - Man's laughter.

Thank you very much indeed @MereDintofPandiculation

Good for Freddie and in your face Elizabeth. I like that Freddie actually seems to be good at DJing, I was worried they were going to make him crap at everything.

would love to know, was Nigel mothered as Freddie has been mothered? Wondering where the heck lizzie’s playbook is coming from.

Oh oh, @MereDintofPandiculation mentioning manslaughter has got me thinking - what if Rob hit his head quite hard and develops a bleed that kills him! He’ll be gone so that’s that SL sewn up, but Lee will be up on a manslaughter if not murder charge throwing Helen into misery. Couldn’t care less what happens to Lee, frankly.

Terrible idea , way too melodramatic, but the way things are going…

I'm not convinced Rob was pushed hard enough to fall, but played it up, and I wouldn't believe in any injuries, either - but then, I didn't think he'd been too affected by the stabbing, and then he got a stoma bag, so what do I know? But anyway, Rob will be totally aware of how this plays into his court and is fully capable of exaggerating any assault or injury, and it's pretty much a he said / he said situation (neither Miles nor Tom being impartial witnesses,) so we may never know, unless it was all caught on a Ring doorbell or something.

@EBearhug I agree, first thought that crossed my mind was that Rob was probably exaggerating (and probably threw himself at the ground on purpose).

and of course the implication of the caution for the planned travel to the us...

Sorry I know this has been said before, but I just need to vent - the sheer idiocy of Tom and Lee going to Knob's home for no other reason than to goad him (I know Knob was goading Lee, but what did Lee and Tom think they were doing?) It's not a case of Knob harassing Helen - coming to the farm, staring through the dairy window or any of the other things we've speculated about - and Tom and Lee warning him off, in fact it's quite the opposite. Knob deserves no one's sympathy, he's made his bed, but he should be allowed to lie in it without anyone from Bridge Farm going anywhere near him. If I were Helen I'd have no hesitation in kicking Lee out and I'd also be removing Pat's shotgun to reduce the likelihood of her (or anyone else) brandishing it at Knob and running the risk of both children being for their own safety.

Isn't there a difference between assault and common assault? I thought common assault was minor things like shoving, spitting etc that don't cause injury. Lee mentioned common assault though given Rob hit his head even inadvertently I would have thought it would be a more serious charge.

Lillian v Tiger, Will v Emmur, Jenny v various?

It was a pity that Helen didn't mention to Anna the little matter of Lee's children being in the US. It's difficult to work out whether that's another complication the SWs plan on introducing down the line, or just something they haven't thought of.

or just something they haven't thought of I'm pretty sure they will have thought of it. This is a plot about the dangers of taking the law into your own hands and there will be lots of repercussions. Knob is like a cackling Dick Dastardly (and we haven't even heard his voice yet).

@Kiwano I thought you were citing case law with all this legal talk!!

PS I have a law degree but it's massively antiquated!

Lee’s girls come up in practically every conversation so I’ll eat my hat if this isn’t leading up to him being prevented from visiting them.

I know this sounds naïve but if you'd moved your daughters abroad for job reasons, and their (apparently nice, involved) dad became unable to visit them - wouldn't you think about moving back? Maybe not immediately but in the medium term?

surely it would depend on the reasons he couldn’t visit? Your approach might be different if it was illness or injury preventing the visit compared to the consequences of his own ill conceived stupid actions?

Well that's true, I guess I just think it's a bit callous to move abroad anyway when you know the kids' other parent hasn't got much cash and will barely be able to see them.

I'm a bit sceptical that DJing will earn Freddy enough money to keep him if he is genuinely intending to wash his hands of LL. Or does he assume he will continue living there rent free with LL and Lizzie subsidising him?

I suppose that will be the next big conversation. I think Elizabeth is driving him away. She needs to look at her own behaviour.

I agree Elizabeth is not very supportive to Freddy, is she a bit jealous of him eventually getting LL and she will just be pushed to the side lines. Im not keen on whining Freddy but I think his mum should of helped him more im sure she could have stood up for him when he was told he cant inherit yet, i bet she loved still being in charge.
Tom and Lee so stupid its getting annoyingly even more than George and thats saying something.

I think Elizabeth is terrified of Freddie growing up, inheriting, and taking her power trip away. His going off and doing something successful, thereby impressing the trustees with his maturity, is so not what she wants to happen.

Can I just say I called it on Freddie stepping aside and maybe doing a Prince Harry, and Lily maybe inheriting/taking charge

I think his DJ career will be a flop.