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Archers thread #147: Spring is sprung, the grass is riz, I wonder how old Ambridge is. Discuss The Archers here.

982 replies

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 16/03/2023 09:51

Archers Many thanks to @PseudoBadger for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

Archers All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to have the general public watching you work and asking questions, or other unusual views. Grin

Archers Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

Archers For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Title comes from this poem, with which I drive my family to distraction at this time of year.

Spring is sprung, the grass is riz
I wonder where the birdies is.
The bird is on the wing.
But that’s absurd, the wing is on the bird.
Or so I’ve heard.

Ogden Nash

Apologies to @TeenDivided for ignoring her good ideas for the thread title. Here they are to kickstart our ruminations:
'window on the world of cheesemaking'
'how long until the intercom is fatal'
'will Brian settle in new pastures'
'Springing towards Easter with Widowers, Windows, and wails'

Over to you!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
JanglyBeads · 17/04/2023 21:25

Are any of us perfect?

Entering into any relationship makes us vulnerable by definition.

faffadoodledo · 17/04/2023 21:45

Helen was definitely vulnerable and ripe for manipulation. Her eating disorder pre dated Rob didn't it?

In fact on the subject of the ED, I'm amazed she came through it so quickly. They're very often lifelong conditions once they set in, and can certainly re-emerge during times of stress. No sign of that with Helen. She appears to behave completely 'normally' around food

echt · 17/04/2023 22:31

I think Helen's lack of ED symptoms is more about the the ishoos-based SLs that aren't followed through. Maybe the SWs will read this and pick it up as the Rob fear ramps up.

OverArmour · 17/04/2023 22:43

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 17/04/2023 19:43

JanglyBeads
Sorry haven't time to reply at length now but so fundamentally disagree.
Rob was abusing Heln from their first date, when he persuaded her to change her outfit without actually telling or even asking her to.

That was not on their first date. She had spent quite a while pursuing him before that happened, and they had been out to more than one thing together. In fact since she went back upstairs after he'd been iffy about what she had on, I am fairly certain it was shortly after she'd moved herself and her son into his house without his inviting her to do so, in which case I would damn well hope it wasn't their first date!

Their first date (apart from the meal she invited herself to) was on 21st June, 2013, when Helen invited Rob to go with her to a Food Fair; their second was when she told Pat to invite him to supper at Bridge Farm, and he came to the meal on 11th July, 2013. They first had sex on 28th July, 2013, after he rang her when he'd came back from a weekend away, saying he'd had a row with Jess, and Helen went over to "comfort" him for his disappointment. After that occasion she and Rob avoided each other for a bit, and I am not sure what you would call her going over to his house when she heard he hadn't gone to Hampshire to be with Jess, on 9th August, 2013: he didn't invite her, she went there with the intention of having sex with him entirely off her own bat. Not really a date; definitely her idea not his.

Did you mean on Thursday 13th February, 2014, which was their special Valentine's meal because Rob had to be away on 14th? On that occasion Lowfield says that "By seven Helen is ready and presumably looking gorgeous, though controller Rob seems to want some alteration made to her appearance before they climb into the limousine en route for a Michelin star restaurant in Birmingham." At that point she had already had her row with her parents, shaken the dust of Bridge Farm off her feet, and moved uninvited into Rob's house.

He definitely abused Helen, but she did quite certainly make it very easy for him to move in on her by her determination to get into first his bed and then his life, whether he was married or not. His abuse of her did not start until well after their first date, except insofar as everything about him was creepy from day one for those who were not so blinded by the "mind blowing sex" (Helen's words when Kirsty asked what she saw in him) that they didn't notice how unpleasant he was.

Why does it matter who initiated the relationship when considering abusive behaviour that then subsequently occurred? I genuinely don’t think your intent is to victim blame (‘because she may have initiated a relationship with a man who turns out to be an abuser she somehow deserves what comes very soon after’) but the level of detail perhaps inadvertently suggests this.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 17/04/2023 22:52

Helen went back to not being able to eat at one point during the Rob period of her life, and also after failing to have an affair with one of her other potential boyfriends. Her having the same problem now would be realistic, wouldn't it. Poor Helen.

For the record, I am not victim blaming, just pointing out Helen's determination (once the editor decided on it) even though Rob was married to somebody else, to be with the person who subsequently started to abuse her.

She has frequently set her sights on men she has encountered and then pursued them, to the point of stalking one of them, turning up at his flat and generally harassing him until he told her point blank that she was unattractive and too old for him and she was to leave him alone; she was very unfortunate that this one (rather than either telling her to go away in a manner she could have no doubts about, running for the hills, or blowing his brains out with a shotgun) was a sadist who found her a suitable victim. After that had happened she was certainly abused, certainly a victim, and certainly in need of both help and pity.

JayAlfredPrufrock · 17/04/2023 22:56

Placemarking as I’ve had an accidental name change

AngryBirdsNoMore · 17/04/2023 23:33

Agree with @Hercisback @MereDintofPandiculation and @IrisAtwood.

I first started to listen around the time of the Helen abuse storyline. I haven’t listened to some of the background eg on her having Henry, just read about it. But eating disorder, desperation to be independent, having a baby alone because she wanted someone to love her - this all sounds not like cultivated or deliberate actions, but the actions of a vulnerable woman who was therefore ripe for an abuser to spot and pick on.

Abuse is never the victim’s fault.

I agree @MereDintofPandiculation that Lee’s boring is actually quite nice and probably just right for Helen. I thought he did really well in the argument with Pat and Tony.

ConsideredAsABeetle · 17/04/2023 23:37

I find it hard to see Helen’s ED as anything other than something she does at people to control them. But then I also see her as an unpleasant and manipulative control freak who had the bad judgment, or perhaps misfortune, to throw herself at someone who was simply better at manipulating and even nastier than she is.

ConsideredAsABeetle · 17/04/2023 23:43

None of which excuses or mitigates Rob’s actions, of course. I’m just glad it was Helen rather than someone else he was doing it to

TonightMatthewIamgoingtobecher · 18/04/2023 07:44

BerylBillings · 17/04/2023 14:48

I'd have thought that Helen would have at least confided in Kirsty, who was privy to more of Rob's behaviour than most and a supportive friend throughout.

Or is Kirsty elsewhere? I've forgotten.

That's what I said a few pages back. Makes no sense being Natasha apart from plotting.

Also, while we are on it is Helen no longer best friends with Ian either? Maybe it's not Rob who set her apart from her friends, maybe she's the type to withdraw from others when in a relationship?

FallonsNewCoat · 18/04/2023 08:18

What on earth was the point of meeting Jazzer’s new best friend in the pub? Those scenes were very slow. Also, I just zone out when either Ian or Lee are on stage so a scene with the 2 of them was pretty deathly (presumably it was meant to help new listeners with some background). I’m afraid I failed to finish last night’s episode. Who was the writer - someone on work experience?

I suppose some nights we have to cope with straightforward padding.

TonightMatthewIamgoingtobecher · 18/04/2023 08:59

Is Jazzer's new pal going to be a wrong'un like Timotei? Must be a reason why it was contrived for Jazzer to go to a pub quiz with him and not Jim and Ed. Can't have good things happen for Tracy and Ed, they need to be kept in their place.

Has anyone noticed it's been Pip free for a while now? I thought maybe her old school pal was going to single white female her.

TottersBlankly · 18/04/2023 09:31

Makes no sense being Natasha apart from plotting.

In a sense … It may we’ll be that whatever big story is building will be entirely about the Bridge Farm Archers.

But that makes sense - Helen has always been all about family strength - from the time she threw Hayley off from John’s business. The SWs had her rely on Kirsty during Rob’s reign to underline how isolated she’d become from her family - but I can well imagine she now feels more invested in her relationship with Natasha than she does with Kirsty.

Labradory · 18/04/2023 09:34

I’m a constant name changer and can’t remember ones I’ve used on here before, but hello again everyone! Delurking to wonder whether Jazzer’s new pal is a celeb cameo. A darts player perhaps? i can’t figure out how to find the cast list for each episode. If not a cameo, a very strange addition to the episode. Clunky!

BerylBillings · 18/04/2023 09:47

Is Jazzer's new pal going to be a wrong'un like Timotei? Must be a reason why it was contrived for Jazzer to go to a pub quiz with him and not Jim and Ed.

Wasn't Chelsea and Brad's Dad a 'Dennis'?!

Maybe future fireworks to come, between him and Jazzer...

BerylBillings · 18/04/2023 09:50

TonightMatthewIamgoingtobecher · 18/04/2023 07:44

That's what I said a few pages back. Makes no sense being Natasha apart from plotting.

Also, while we are on it is Helen no longer best friends with Ian either? Maybe it's not Rob who set her apart from her friends, maybe she's the type to withdraw from others when in a relationship?

Show quote history

Ah, sorry, must have missed that post.

Yes, agree re Ian.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 18/04/2023 09:56

BerylBillings · 18/04/2023 09:47

Is Jazzer's new pal going to be a wrong'un like Timotei? Must be a reason why it was contrived for Jazzer to go to a pub quiz with him and not Jim and Ed.

Wasn't Chelsea and Brad's Dad a 'Dennis'?!

Maybe future fireworks to come, between him and Jazzer...

Tracy's-ex Den spoke when Oliver and Brad went to him while trying to find Chelsea; he was played by Laurence Saunders.

Last night's Dennis is in the cast list as "Den: Laurence Saunders"

Labradory · 18/04/2023 09:56

Thank you @TottersBlankly Have checked and I was wrong. Not a darts player cameo!

ConsideredAsABeetle · 18/04/2023 09:57

I vaguely remember a recent mention by I think Adam that Ian had had Helen and ‘the boys’ to lunch or something. Key word there is ‘vaguely’, though.

faffadoodledo · 18/04/2023 10:01

I knew it @AskingQuestionsAllTheTime !!!
Denis absolutely rang a bell.
Good sleuthing!

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 18/04/2023 10:08

ConsideredAsABeetle · 17/04/2023 23:43

None of which excuses or mitigates Rob’s actions, of course. I’m just glad it was Helen rather than someone else he was doing it to

I think it is important to remember that it is not only pleasant, nice or good women who are abused by unspeakable bastards. Nasty women, manipulative women or downright bad women are as well.

BerylBillings · 18/04/2023 10:12

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

Aha!
Well, that proves it.

BTW, your Archers knowledge is encyclopaedic. As a recent-ish joiner to this board, I'm always so impressed by the details you add.

BerylBillings · 18/04/2023 10:14

*(my comment above was in reply to the Dennis answer)

IrisAtwood · 18/04/2023 10:31

Do people really have a very quick conversation with a random person in a pub and within minutes involve them in planning for a stag do?

A relationship that progresses that fast is a red flag to me. Not something that well balanced, sensible do.

Of course it could be another example of the SW rushing things for plot purposes:
Turns out to be Adam’s long lost half brother he never knew he had.
Spy for Rob taking a very discursive route to get into village life.
Going to be the person that Pat shoots because she doesn’t recognise him.
Going to offer to book something fab for the stag do and make off with the cash……