👑 Archers thread #139: Who’s the Daddy? No ceremonial required to join us – discuss The Archers here!

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you like the sound of Lilian’s Cinnamon Chicken, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/4197199--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-6-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

I'm often struck by the time a thread ends how irrelevant the previous title has become to what's currently going on in The Archers. The Queen's death has only been mentioned very briefly in TA, of course, but I suppose that was to be expected in a time of budget constraints. In a few weeks when this thread fills up I wonder if we will still be thinking that, and about Chelsea and her pregnancy. That depends on what she decides to do, which at the time of writing is still up in the air.

As usual, I asked for title ideas and for various reasons then didn't use them. Sorry. Lillian Gish's was very witty - Will Chelsea stay mum about dad? Muddler made a more controversial one - Horrobins thread #139. As a new Great House of Ambridge emerges, come swear your allegiance here.

That's about all I can face saying about TA at the moment. I am expecting to have to travel north soon as my Dad is in hospital and I have to be with my Mum. (They're the same sort of age as Jill Archer, and up to now have been like her and Peggy, very active, managing very well with no help, but this may all be about to change ). So apologies if I'm more absent than present for a while. Will pop in when I can.

I just don't believe that Ben would have slept with Chelsea, even if he and Beth 'were on a break'.

I agree. It's an awful awful storyline. Gratuitously over-dramatic. I'm very cross.

Yes, agree with all of this.

@WhoppingBigBackside It’s MereCat’s Mum who needs your best wishes. Because we kept MereCat in for observation, easiest way was to just lock the cat flap, Mum was in a very bad mood this morning.

Thanks for best wishes, we’re sort of used to the situation now.

Yes, I’m with @TeenDivided

My god I loathe this storyline.

This might finish Jill off - two great-grandchildren, one a Fairbrother and now a Horrobin!

A mature, sensible abortion storyline would be timely with all that’s going on in the USA and other countries, and renewed discussion of reproductive rights here.

Unfortunately, mature and sensible doesn’t seem very Archers at the moment.

Is it statistically a bit surprising that no one in the Archers - the show not just the family - has ever had an abortion?

I think someone did - Elizabeth? And/or Debbie as I used to get them confused when I was small and they both seemed to have horrible boyfriends.

Elizabeth did. (If you scroll up you may find Gasp0de’s post on how and why, think it’s on this thread.)

Yes, Elizabeth (and yes, my post about it is on this thread, 20/09/2022 11:42). Any number of women in Ambridge could have terminations, but she is (IIRC) the only one we've ever been told about.

Elizabeth's horrible boyfriend was Cameron Fraser, who owned the Berrow Estate, but turned out to be a swindler. He conned at least two Ambridge residents out of significant sums of money - Marjorie Antrobus, of blessed memory, and Caroline Bone/Pemberton/Sterling. They met on the plane on the way to the creditors' meeting after he did a runner (leaving Elizabeth in the lurch as well, of course, but in a different way). He had had a relationship with Caroline first and Elizabeth, who was very young then and smitten with the smarmy git largely because he seemed to be very wealthy and sophisticated (by Ambridge standards), made her move as soon as Caroline dumped him. Nigel Pargetter, who was already utterly besotted with Elizabeth, was aghast, but eventually got his chance when Cameron buggered off.

Debbie's horrible boyfriend was Simon Pemberton, son of Guy Pemberton, who was (a) lovely, (b) the next owner of Berrow and (c) Caroline's first husband, for a year, until he had a heart attack. Shula went out with him for a bit first. He slapped Debbie and was prosecuted, but got off with a non-custodial sentence. Cue much handwringing from Shula, because he had also been violent to her, and she hadn't told anybody.

Elizabeth's horrible boyfriend was Cameron Fraser, who owned the Berrow Estate, but turned out to be a swindler

TAs sounds it like it used to be much more interesting in years go by when it wasn’t just a story of unmarried Brookfield Archers going around having children

Also, sorry to ask but did Eddie G used to have much interaction with Caroline? I can remember him saying her name when my Mum was listening in the kitchen when we were growing up but did they share many scenes? I know she was a fairy godmother to Will but don’t know the history at all.

Caroline was Will's godmother, but I can't remember how that came about.

Debbie went on to marry her lecturer at university, didn't she? I forget the details there, too.

We never hear much about Meriel (sp?) these days do we?

In the 'old days' there was Jenny becoming an unmarried Mum (scandal)
Walter Gabriel and an elephant.
Nelson Gabriel of shady doings running an antique shop and then a wine bar
Elizabeth with her hole in the heart, later expelled from school I think?

Caroline was Will's godmother, but I can't remember how that came about.

I left my hot coffee and warm bed to go and find the book that I thought would give me the answer - but it doesn’t. Or, at least, I can’t find it. All I know is that Caroline had I think worked at the Bull when she first arrived (1979/80?) and Clarrie was working at the Bull when she became pregnant with Will in 1982. I seem to vaguely recall Clarrie admired Caroline, so …

But never mind that! Saw this paragraph and thought you’d all enjoy:

Ambridge Underclass (1989)

Early in the summer Susan Carter was reminded of her less savoury family connections when she discovered that her brother Clive’s 17-year-old girlfriend, Sharon Richards, was pregnant. Sharon gave up her hairdressing course and came to live for a while at the Horrobins, before Susan took pity on her and offered them a room at No. I The Green. This arrangement didn't last long and soon they were on the move again, this time to the vicarage, when the new vicar Jerry Buckle scandalised half the village by taking them in.
It was here that Matthew Thorogood delivered the young couple's baby daughter, Kylie, in October. In spite of Jerry's good intentions, Clive showed few signs of becoming a responsible father and disappeared six weeks later, along with Sharon's portable stereo.

From The Archers Archives; 60 Years of Life, Love and Stories From Ambridge - Simon Frith & Chris Arnot

Cue much handwringing from Shula

You could just cut and paste that sentence in at any point in Shula's existence, really, couldn’t you? If it was a perfume it'd be called Essence de Shula.

Anyway, I too loathe and despise the Chelsea/Ben/Baby story and I’m going to be very grumpy about it until it all goes away. So possibly forever.

Cue much handwringing from Shula, because he had also been violent to her, and she hadn't told anybody.

I didn't know this, so St Smugula has a history of covering up for violent men.

William was named after the now PoW. Caroline was picked as a grandmother because she was related to Lord Netherbourne.

Debbie's husband was Simon Gerrard. He was much older, and turned up in Ambridge after Debbie dropped out of university. Simon was having affairs so the marriage fell apart.

A friend of mine was badly beaten up by her then fiance. They split up. She didn't report it. A subsequent girlfriend didn't need to report it - he killed her.

A friend of mine was badly beaten up by her then fiance. They split up. She didn't report it. A subsequent girlfriend didn't need to report it - he killed her. Two thirds of homicides of women are by someone well known to the woman, often a partner or ex, with the danger point being just after the woman has left.

Ooh, a good link Mudderinlaw.

So Sharon is Johnny's mum (and such a great parent that he jumped ship at 15/16).

I wonder whether the SWs remember this and will arrange a conversation between Johnny and Chelsea?

I hate this storyline and the complete failure of anybody to get Chelsea some counselling/medical advice.

Johnny hasn't had a speaking part all year.

I'm not sure what relevance a conversation between Chelsea and Johnny would have for Chelsea. Johnny moving to Bridge Farm was purely plot driven and had nothing to do with any failing on Sharon's part. By the time we knew of Johnny's existence Sharon was married to, from the little we know, a perfectly nice man and Johnny was part of a stable, happy family.

It wouldn't even be that relevant to speak to Sharon. Sharon had to cope on her own and that won't be the case here.

@MereDintofPandiculation , he was following my DF for ages after she dumped him, and she moved a long way away.

The point where violence escalates is often when the victim stands up to the attacker, or as you say, leaves him.

@Madcats, would Johnny really know about any struggles his mother had as a single mother to his older half-sibling. IIRC Johnny, then nn Ritchie, was curious about his natural father. Pat had found out about her grandson from Kylie - I think at Ivy Horrobin's funeral.

Johnny, as far as we have been told, had a good relationship with his mother and step-father, but stayed on in Ambridge as he wanted to be a farmer.

Sooo many gaps in my knowledge! Thank you all so much for filling in a few…

Yes, it used to be better. Debbie was a central character all through the 1980s and 1990s and very well acted by Tamsin Greig, who is now so successful and busy she can hardly ever work for TA - hence Debbie's long sojourn in Hungary. She and Charles Collingwood (Brian) and Jack May (Nelson Gabriel) were key reasons I got hooked back then.

Debbie is Jennifer's daughter by her first husband. Brian never adopted her but he has always absolutely adored her. She did well at school (Cheltenham Ladies' College) and went off to Exeter to do a degree in French and English. [Yes, I have got out my Archers reference books.] She returned to Ambridge unexpectedly in 1991because she had become involved with a Canadian lecturer on the course, Simon Gerrard, and it had all gone wrong. He came after her but Brian sent him packing. Debbie never went back to Exeter (just one of many Ambridge HE dropouts or refuseniks, mostly female ) and after working in Nelson Gabriel's antiques shop for a bit ended up as Brian's right-hand woman at Home Farm, in spite of having no agricultural or business training.

It was early in the 2000s when Simon turned up in Ambridge again. He had a job lecturing at Felpersham University. He and Debbie got involved again and this time they were married, very much against Brian's better judgement. Around the time Brian was having his affair with Ruairi's mother, Siobhan, Debbie found out that Simon was facing charges of sexual harassment and they split up, this time permanently. When Debbie found out what Brian had been up to, she seemed to be even more upset than she had been about Simon. (The dynamic between Brian and Debbie was fascinating). It was not long after that that Debbie departed for Hungary.

Lots of memories there! And I had completely forgotten that Simon Pemberton was Guy's son.