❓ Archers thread #126: It’s a mystery why we’re all still listening.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you’d love to be on the Parish Council, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/4197199--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-6-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LillianGish and @Taswama for thread title ideas, but I felt most in sympathy with @R4's suggestion. Is it me, or is the programme in the doldrums at the moment?

Haven't heard the 31/3 episode yet. Perhaps it's a gem.

What I can't remember is whether Rosie ever got christened

She did- remember the drama over including the name "Grace". No idea who the godparents are.

I have so many problems with yesterday’s episode:
Bluebells in early April? There are some just peeking out but, really, May is the bluebell month.

Was it supposed to be Monday 12.04.2020? If Jazzer misread the poster about the re-enactment then it must have been 12.04.2019 which was a Friday, the last day of term. Nine days before Easter, not eight days after. Besides it wouldn’t happen - who does re-enactments on a Monday, in April? Answer: nobody because they have to work and because of April showers.

Tracey wouldn’t have taken her DC to Kenilworth castle (boring old English Heritage), they would have gone to Warwick (edutainment courtesy of The Tussauds Group).

Do people really have pink and green christening gowns? Thought they were white? And in Ambridge they are handed down from generation to generation.

Why did Tracy tell Susan it was “someone from work, you wouldn’t know them”. This is Ambridge! Everybody (especially Susan) knows everybody.

And breathe.

I wonder if the choice of Pip is to illustrate Alice's relative friendlessness and isolation in the village. Who does she actually get on with, Lilian? But that she isn't related to? Her friends would have been her university and career friends but she'd limited her career for Chris, while theirs took off, so may have fallen out of touch out of embarrassment and diverging lifestyles. I think she's been feeling a failure for a very long time.

I agree with Alice that there's no need for Emma to be both aunt and godmother. Should Harrison and Fallon be agreeing to be godparents if they wouldn't be prepared to take on her care if needed?

What a shame this Pip v Alice feature on the TA website hasn't been updated since 2016 ...

It's true they do have plenty in common and are intermittently friendly - but I'd guess the primary reason (from a SW's POV) for making Pip Martha's godmother is that when things explode there'll be a Brookfield Archer in the middle of the action. (Though Ruth's stint as Ruairi's representative was disappointingly underplayed.)

She did- remember the drama over including the name "Grace". No idea who the godparents are.

Wasn't there some fuss over having Josh as one of them?

I always thought part of the point of godparents was that they're people you're not related to. Mine and my sister's were all parents' friends from college, first jobs, housemates and so on. I'm still in touch with all mine.

I wonder if Alice has yet realised that if she won't tell her family about her alcoholism she's going to have to find reasons for not drinking for the rest of her life? Or does she still fondly imagine she can go back to fully controlled social drinking?

I also wonder who she imagines is going to look after Martha if she goes back to work? Does Jenny D get dumped on again?

She could just say, "I gave up drinking when I was pregnant and just never got back into it, and now I just can't tolerate it." But obviously that is too simple.

I also wonder who she imagines is going to look after Martha if she goes back to work? Does Jenny D get dumped on again?

I daresay there'd be an infinite number of family members on the rota - but I honestly doubt that any daughter of Brian's would struggle for money for paid childcare.

I don't understand why people who aren't Christian have their children christened, or why people who aren't Christian become godparents.

I suspect Alice will be doing a lot of 'drunking'.

I do. Isn't it a completely human thing to want to celebrate a child's arrival? And we like structure, so if we can attach that ceremony to something formal we will. Kate held out on the organised religion bit, but her pagan ceremony for Phoebe was exactly the same sentiment.

And Alice, even if she's a non-believer, is in rather desperate need of assistance from 'elsewhere'.

As for the godparents - it takes a village an' all ... Really it ought to be compulsory to appoint some non-related adults of good standing to take an interest in a child. They merit more than just paid professionals in their early lives. The association with any particular religion can be entirely incidental.

But the whole idea is that godparent is a person who presents a child at baptism and promises to take responsibility for their religious education.

Why do that if you don't believe in religion?

I agree that secular godparents are a brilliant thing. They give the child a relationship all of its own with adults outside the immediate family. A direct connection that is separate from the parental friendship (ideally). The godparents can offer influence, experiences, guidance and a listening ear on many things other than the religious.

I've entered into 'what sort of godparents?' discussions on MN before, so this feels like a cross-over discussion but I am an advocate for the unrelated godparent. You gain more variety that way and relationships you wouldn't already have. Especially useful if the immediate family is odd or troubled. I can understand why people would choose the aunt or uncle they think the child might be closest to, or gain most from but there's a lot of potential to upset those not chosen.

I don't think godparents must necessarily be the people you'd name in your will to take the DCs if you both died. They could be but that could be a relative instead.

Dare I ask, in a MNetty cliche, whether there is any class element to the related / unrelated habit? I wonder if it's more of a WC thing to choose related GPs, which might partly explain Susan's expectation?

I don't understand why people who aren't Christian have their children christened, or why people who aren't Christian become godparents

While technically still correct, I think the concept of godparents has evolved to mean something else nowadays. The religious aspect has been dropped by many and committing to being a godparent nowadays means formally committing to being a significant other adult in a child’s life. May be someone they can turn to for help and advice in situations when they may not turn to their parents. The religious vow therefore seems a bit redundant in that context, I agree, but it’s why even in humanist ceremonies parents still ask friends/relatives to take on that role.

Chris seems to have demonstrated some sort of religious belief when he spoke to Alan but I am surprised Alice is going for a church ceremony- and that Kate hasn’t appeared to stick her humanist/spiritual though not religious oar into the water...

Alice on keen on appearances and increasingly worried about what people think of her. (Well she is now, she's changed since she and Chris married). A church christening fits with the upright, conforming image she is now keen to cultivate and offers a formality she can hide behind.

Also, I think Alice is giving way to things she thinks Chris wants, because she's scared he'll leave her. Hence the bad decision to drop her perfectly successful breastfeeding.

@EBearhug

She did- remember the drama over including the name "Grace". No idea who the godparents are.

Wasn't there some fuss over having Josh as one of them?

I always thought part of the point of godparents was that they're people you're not related to. Mine and my sister's were all parents' friends from college, first jobs, housemates and so on. I'm still in touch with all mine.

Child of the 80's... All 3 of my godparents are aunts/uncles, where as my sister has 1 non-related gp, I was always jealous that she got an extra Christmas present.

Prestissimo
Trying to imagine anything in green silk that would look good on a baby

Silk would be idiotic because if the difficulty of washing it, but dark green velvety material could be fine: babies look good in any of the dark jewel colours, in my experience. You can't get babygrows in them any more, but we had a couple back in the early eighties in dark blue velvety material and deep crimson, and they looked terrific on the son and hairless. I don't see why green or purple wouldn't be just as becoming.

Better than mimsy pastels any day, as far as I am concerned.

Roysnewshirt
I thought it was going to end with a public message re picking Spanish/English bluebells from the flat-capped car enthusiast.

So did I. And that ought to have been mentioned: according to the National Trust "It is against the law to intentionally pick, uproot or destroy bluebells". They're protected under legislation from the 1980s.

ILoveShula Very much channelling your namesake there.

Naaah.

Godparents is all about the presents, innit?

R4
I have so many problems with yesterday’s episode:
So do I! You've picked up on many that bounced out at me:

Bluebells in early April? There are some just peeking out but, really, May is the bluebell month.
None round here, and we are further south than Ambridge.

Was it supposed to be Monday 12.04.2020? If Jazzer misread the poster about the re-enactment then it must have been 12.04.2019 which was a Friday, the last day of term. Nine days before Easter, not eight days after. Besides it wouldn’t happen - who does re-enactments on a Monday, in April? Answer: nobody because they have to work and because of April showers.
(it was Sunday 12/4/2020, this is 2021, but the idea remains the same) Yes, and yes, and yes.

Tracey wouldn’t have taken her DC to Kenilworth castle (boring old English Heritage), they would have gone to Warwick (edutainment courtesy of The Tussauds Group).
That did make me blink a bit, though I think she said there had been a re-enactment when she took the kids to Kenilworth. (I hated Warwick, and it was very expensive. We escaped and sat on the high tower overlooking a valley to get away from the relentless Fun we were meant to be having, and the "ghost" tapes. You don't have to pay twenty quid to sit on a hilltop overlooking a valley.)

Do people really have pink and green christening gowns? Thought they were white? And in Ambridge they are handed down from generation to generation.
Xander had a naming ceremony with guideparents instead of godparents -- one of the few things I agree with Kate about, this: people with no religious faith so's you'd notice (Pip, Harrison, Fallon) taking a solemn oath to educate a child in the Christian faith is yicky.

Yes, christening gowns in Ambridge do get handed down. It seems likely that one for the six-month-old full-term Xander will fit the two-month-old premature baby Martha like a mattress balancing on a bottle of wine, but at least it won't be too small!

Why did Tracy tell Susan it was “someone from work, you wouldn’t know them”. This is Ambridge! Everybody (especially Susan) knows everybody.
Tracy has about one female workmate at Grey Gables at the moment, and Susan knows Kirsty.

And breathe.
Grrrr, on the whole.

@lottiegarbanzo

Also, I think Alice is giving way to things she thinks Chris wants, because she's scared he'll leave her. Hence the bad decision to drop her perfectly successful breastfeeding.

Funny how differently people hear things. Last night I got the strong impression that Alice is mentally checking out of the marriage and preparing to cut and run. Possibly wishful thinking on my part of course. And she is certainly keeping the Carter side of the sprog's heritage at arm's length (as who wouldn't, given the ghastliness of Susan and Emma). Before she goes, it would be nice if she could remind Susan of the time she was pissed on air, though.

The parents I know who have had their DC christened have either been practicing Christians or those who only go to church for weddings, funerals and christenings. Some of the godparents have been atheist (to the point of poking fun at Christians), some agnostic.

this is 2021
Oops. So it is.

I thought the Alice no breastfeeding/back to work chat was about a desire to keep the baby at arm’s length “out of harm’s [ie Alice’s] way”. She’s scared of her own capacity to further harm the baby - either directly through feeding or through negligence, and she’s also scared of being seen as a crap failure mother and danger by Chris and him then taking the baby and leaving. So I reckon in her mind it’s a case of the less time she spends with the baby (whatever she may want) the better.

My lasting memory of being a new Mum was that the world and his Aunt invited themselves round to see the newborn. Surely Alice hasn't annoyed all her friends. Where's Fallon these days?

I am hoping for Alice's "shocking secret" to be revealed at the Christening so that we can move on from this tense storyline.

Can we have a few gamboling lambs and a few glamping pods at Grey Gables, please. I feel we've had enough doom and gloom (and mystery plays) in Ambridge this past 12 months to last a decade.