❓ Archers thread #126: It’s a mystery why we’re all still listening.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you’d love to be on the Parish Council, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/4197199--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-6-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LillianGish and @Taswama for thread title ideas, but I felt most in sympathy with @R4's suggestion. Is it me, or is the programme in the doldrums at the moment?

Haven't heard the 31/3 episode yet. Perhaps it's a gem.

Christening = party, glass of champagne (and more) surely? Lovely.

I've been looking forward to a glass of Rioja since Tuesday. Thanks Alice.

I do see the point of a Christening, bringing all the family together to welcome and offer support to Martha, thus embedding her in the community (and making it seem harder for Chris to spirit her away / break up the family - a farrier's not going to get far is he, it'll be a very local, messy split). It also feels like another way of focusing all the attention on Martha, supposedly to align C&A united behind her but I suspect too, so that Alice can believe that, so long as she's not obviously failing Martha, she can hide her own foibles in her shadow.

That was an unpleasant episode though. I don't want to listen to a lot more of that. Alice needs to talk to Jenny, who will support her unconditionally. (Unlike Kate, who would be very judgemental).

I wonder if for Helen being on an estate with neighbours around will seem safer. Rob managed to get her pretty isolated before , so she might feel fearful of having a house with no close neighbours. And Beechwood is pretty much Lee's dream house.

I also think Chris was demonstrating how someone nice can become controlling and trigger the very behaviour he wants to avoid. They both need more and better help.

But I hope Kirsty is going to use the rental income to pursue her dreams.

Yes. Hard to become isolated when Joy Horville's your neighbour, surely. She's like a personal alarm system, directly wired in Bridge Farm.

'into' not in.

Hello there - long time lurker and it's taken the Alice/Chris/Martha storyline to lure me out onto the board.

I wonder if the christening set-up is so that the rest of Ambridge and Alice's family will actually find out that she's an alcoholic after she inevitably gets absolutely shit-faced on champagne and ends up in the font firing insults at everyone.

The wider community needs to know about her illness in order for Alice to try and recover properly. As it is, poor Chris - annoying as he is - is trying to keep the whole carcrash together, and he isn't bright enough (emotionally or intellectually) to be able to succeed.

The wider community needs to know
The 'wider community' can go screw itself. It is none of their business.

And in my experience, the champagne doesn't come out until after the fonty bit, so your scenario, while possibly pleasing, is a non-starter.
What are the odds on Jazzer being coerced into standing as godfather? Fairly short, I suspect.

Why doesn’t Chris give Alice an ultimatum - tell your family or I will? Otherwise it’s a matter of time before someone else pushes alcohol on her Kate I’m looking at you

By the wider community - By this I meant people would then stop bringing round fucking celebratory bottles of wine to taunt her.

Hello itiswhatitis! I agree that Alice has form for speaking too freely when she is drunk. Nic's funeral and that phone call to Emma come to mind. It would have been easier if she had told her family and I'm surprised it didn't come up at the detox place or with her 'buddy'.

I found it quite stressful listening to Chris - especially with Martha crying. The midwife knows about Alice's drinking doesn't she? I would have thought she would have discussed what would happen if Alice drank while she was breast feeding.

Alarm bells should have immediately rung in Chris’ head when Alice mentioned christening. His wife is an alcoholic and now wants to plan a party. Really? He is just looking forward to swanking around wearing one of those horrible papooses demonstrating what a great dad he is.

Men wear them round here all the time showing off on Sunday mornings and looking soo unmanly and unattractive. I suppose their wives are just glad to get some time off from being a new mum but I doubt papooses are good for a marriage.

I thought people tend to have christenings when the baby is a bit older.

I would have thought she would have discussed what would happen if Alice drank while she was breast feeding.

My midwife discussed it at ante-natal class - she said it was a good idea to have a glass of wine if the baby hadn't been sleeping. It was a long time ago, the past is another country. Drinking while pregnant was still OK and the odd glass of Mackeson or Guinness was encouraged.

I'm with @Asposhasitgets I don't understand why Chris hasn't issues an ultimatum about telling close family so they can support. I also don't think a buddy, medical professional or clinic would have advised not being open about this to those that are important to you.

Men wear them round here all the time showing off on Sunday mornings and looking soo unmanly and unattractive. I suppose their wives are just glad to get some time off from being a new mum but I doubt papooses are good for a marriage

What a bizarre, throwback thing to say @Roysnewshirt! Should the men only wear suits and the women wear lovely dresses while they do the housework, too?! Might work for Brine and Jenny Darling, but most couples are a little more modern than that.

Anyway, there needs to be a(nother) crisis for Chris and Alice to get them both to face facts about her recovery. The christening could be it...

@Umbivalent, I don't think that's what Roysnewshirt meant.I think she meant the Disney New Dad, who is happy to show off the fruit of his loins on a Sunday morning 'Look at me, look at me, aren't I a great daddy'. He is probably wearing an expensive version of the 'I'm the Daddy' t-shirt and either wearing a papoose or pushing a turbocharged 3-wheel drive baby-tractor.

It's no good. I am still annoyed at the colossal idiocy of a person, in possession of a relatively large amount of land... which reminds that in all the furore of Alice hitting the bottle again no-one has mentioned Brian's reaction to Kate's proposal to relocate Spiritual Home. I wish the SW would properly tackle the fall-out from the selling Home Farm. It seemed ridiculous at the time that Brian and Jenny would sacrifice their family home to save some portable yurts installed by their capricious daughter and to what purpose? After a couple of episodes referencing the downsizing it has scarcely been mentioned - much less what's actually going on at Home Farm now. A perfect example of big build up coming to nothing - as with the slavery storyline. Is it actually believable that Kirsty would get to keep the house? I know it's not real, but I want to believe it is.

Couldn't have said it better @LillianGish

What a bizarre, throwback thing to say @Roysnewshirt! Should the men only wear suits and the women wear lovely dresses while they do the housework, too?!

And

I don't think that's what Roysnewshirt meant.I think she meant the Disney New Dad

Thank you @ILoveShula! That’s exactly what I meant. Disney Dads! Perfectly put. May be I do really love Shula! The streets here are crawling with DDs on a sunny weekend morning. Usually with an older child trawling behind looking a bit forgotten, like a discarded toy.

IRL I think Alice would have confided in one of her sisters. Probably Debbie. They sounded pretty close on previous Skype calls. Or may be even Fallon.

I don't find Alice's reluctance to confide in anyone unbelievable. She is is still in denial - despite her detox session and her support buddy (whose support she takes as reassurance for every slip and trip) she can't bring herself to admit that it's really a problem so she doesn't think anyone else needs to know. Chris is starting to see it is (Peggy's voice in his head that Alice knows nothing about), but even he doesn't really want to believe it and Alice can still wrap him round her little finger once she sobers up.

Helen doesn't deserve to be happy at all, ever; and I also want some wecompense for the years of Henwy's wobotic ickle voice.

Just wait till we get to hear Jack. It'll probably be another wobotic voice with undertones of Wob.

It would be good if Chris could have another chat with Peggy, who could tell him how often she heard those faithful promises never to drink again that the promiser was simply unable to keep.

Welcome @Itishwhatitis

Only just caught up and pondering the Helen housing ridiculousness. I CAN just about see how utterly without skill she and her family are in terms of building their own house (especially thinking about utilities and all that stuff which Beechwood will now have), and the temptation of living there. I CANNOT imagine her wanting to live in that particular house, where her best friend was betrayed and had her life wrecked. I’d nearly as soon picture Kirsty in Stabby Stabby Cottage.

Meant to say re building their own house, doesn’t help that the very “reasonable” local builder seems to have stopped trading...

Wasn’t Helen quite snobby about Beechwood at one point? When the lanterns were found in the field, I think she said they were from Beechwood, while shuddering with horror. I can’t see her in a modern estate house having been brought up on a farm nearby. She is very likely to reminisce about what a beautiful plot of land it used to be while watching Joy put the bins out. I don’t doubt a modern house would suit Lee, on the other hand.

Oh, well done @LillianGish for raising Brian and SH. His outrage was thoroughly enjoyable. Kate has been getting a fairly easy ride these days and you would be forgiven for thinking she is a fairly normal person. But thankfully Brian reminded me what a selfish monster she really is.

This thread is such a joy but I really must stop myself from spending all morning on here!

IRL I think Alice would have confided in one of her sisters. Probably Debbie

I don't find Alice's reluctance to confide in anyone unbelievable

Both of these can be true. Alcoholics feel shame and a desperate need to hide once they stop total denial. The problem for Alice is that her confidante is Chris who seems singularly badly equipped to manage that role. Debbie would be a better support to Alice in the sense that she wouldn't veer from "I lurve you" to "I hate you", would be less visibly judgemental and would be a better support to keeping Alice on the right path (which includes telling people about the problem). Alice can't talk to Chris about her drinking and urges because he pushes her away when she does which makes her more secretive and fearful. That makes for an unhealthy relationship.

Chris has been as keen to keep things secret as Alice - he wants to tell people who will be sympathetic to him (Alan, Emma) but doesn't want it to be public any more than Alice. He persists in this nonsense that a two week detox has "fixed" Alice even more than she does. He has failed to get any proper help from anyone with expertise (Peggy's not an expert, just experienced it and her only advice was to leave Alice). He monopolised Alice's medical appointments and treatment including pulling her out of hospital before she was ready. He isn't evil he is simply not equipped for the job. If he doesn't seek proper help and advice himself he is no better than Alice whose decision making is impaired by the problem.

Chris was just as big a party animal as Alice, was always keen to encourage her as much as vice versa. Alice seems to have the Archer drinking gene, Chris seems to have escaped the matching Horobin gene. Perhaps he feels guilty about that.