Archers thread #112: Quelle beau de lollox! And yet we stick with it. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like Alf to stay around, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from //www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: //www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @DoctorTwo for the thread title! I was strongly tempted by R4's suggestion of Wildlife on Four: Jonneh is wild at Lily, Phoebe rewilds by Occam, Joy is in the wilderness and David is bewildered by a marriage proposal.

So we did make it past Joe's funeral at last. Are we heading for a Christmas octogenarian wedding now?

[LillianGish]

Just ignore - don’t let it derail the thread (she’s only doing it to see if anyone will rise to the bait)

[MissBarbary]

Lily's behaviour with Pat was pretty awful.It really is none of Lily's business and having been told so by Johnny dropping oblique hints whilst sighing deeply to Pat is at best a flat- footed lack of intelligence or at worst spiteful because her own life isn't going well.

Having said that I'm thoroughly enjoying Lily and CMR being made miserable by each other- they so deserve each other.

[BertrandRussell]

Lily was clunky- but nothing she has ever done suggests she is spiteful. And she is only 19 remember.

[BuckingFrolics]

Lily is trying and, yes, very possibly failing, to do the right thing, because she is a flawed and damaged person - just like every single human alive.

We start to learn about ourselves and about being human, in our 20s, and will make appalling mistakes along the way.

Plus the actor playing Lily is superb.

[LillianGish]

I think Lily has been obsessing over Johnny's feelings for Bella because hers for CMR so obviously don't match up. She is fascinated by their relationship - an ordinary relationship between two young people of the same age - because she thought she was the one who had the big love affair. Now she is gradually (at last!) waking up to the fact that hers not in fact an all-conquering, unassailable love - in fact it's a bit sordid, sad and now frankly a bit domesticated - she can't tear her eyes away from Johnny and Bella (whose love is apparently big enough withstand the bomb she just threw at them). Her distress is not because Johnny called her a home wrecker (which is what she said to CMR), but because she is beginning to realise she will never have that kind of love for CMR. She's also beginning to realise that having left his wife for a (even) younger model, he could easily do that again. Come on Lily - kick him in to touch.

[C8H10N4O2]

I think Lily has been obsessing over Johnny's feelings for Bella because hers for CMR so obviously don't match up

Agree entirely with all this. I also don't get the Lily hate along with the relatively free pass for the feckless, entitled Freddie who was quite happy to risk other people's lives rather than get an actual job to fund his jollies. He also nearly destroyed his own family's business (to which he contributes bugger all) in the process.

Then having used the family network to mitigate his woes, find local accommodation and a job he repays them by snooping and gossiping about his benefactors and causing them considerable hurt.

Freddie is nothing like Nigel who could be pretty stupid but was always kind and hard working.

Lily has always worked to help the business (knowing it will all go to Freddie), she worked hard a college and got good results, was groomed by a predatory middle aged man with nobody realising because all the focus is permanently on Freddie.

So yes she can be silly and thoughtless at times but not worse than many on the borders of child/adult life and frankly compared to Freddie she is a bloody saint.

I generally assume anyone using terms like "rancid little bitch", 'hysterical bitch", "catty bitch" etc is simply misogynistic and file the comments accordingly.

[BertrandRussell]

Yes- and Freddie reading and gossiping about Shula’s biography thing was horrible and bizarrely quickly forgotten.

[ppeatfruit]

IMO Frilly are typical late adolescents, a bit thoughtless and selfish, no worse or better than any others. I like them both actually.

[BertrandRussell]

Actually, I disagree. I think Freddie is much worse than average. And Lily is in many ways much better- which I think is why we’re shocked when she does something average or worse....

[Madcats]

One of the many 'pleasures' of having a daughter in yr8 is that I occasionally get to hear about 'young love' in her year. Young ladies can be very very mean to each other if they put their minds to it, particularly where boyfriend jealousy is concerned. Lily is just a few years older and ought to have know full well how Johnnie would resent the news.

Despite this, I do feel a teeny bit sorry for Lily. As far as Lizzie is concerned, CMR is the prodigal son (-in-law) who can do no wrong. It will be tricky to kick him out. It just seems so odd that all the adult members of the Archers clan have welcomed him CMR into the fold - only Kenton seemed bothered.

[Paintingtheroseswhite]

Hi All, just caught up on the last week of TA.

Alf isn't gone for good, he'll be back, he's just playing Eddie, expect a jingling of bells on Christmas Eve and Eddie opening the door etc etc. Or Eddie finding him sleeping rough in the barn etc etc.

The actress who plays Joy is originally from Newcastle so it's not a put on accent. The intrigue with Joy for me is where has her money come from. One of the characters said she came from one of the "big" houses on Beechwood which we know aren't cheap. Selling a house in Shieldfield which isn't an expensive area of Newcastle wouldn't begin to purchase something like that so she must have an extra source of money. Lottery? Ex-husband went from being a double glazing salesman to being the Conservatory King of the North East and she got half the company in the divorce?

[Paintingtheroseswhite]

Also, if she wanted to move to the country why move so far away from home and not somewhere like Northumberland or, if she wanted to be closer to the sainted Rochelle the Southern Yorkshire Dales? Ambridge is an odd choice to just up sticks from Newcastle

[birdsdestiny]

You are right Lillian about the approach to use. I will learn
I can't work out what the story is going to be with Justin and the Bull. Is it supposed to be him muscling in on Lillians interests. What percentage of the Bull does Lillian own.

[C8H10N4O2]

*Actually, I disagree. I think Freddie is much worse than average. And Lily is in many ways much better- which I think is why we’re shocked when she does something average or worse....(

And also any girl deviating from socially expected behaviour is "bad" whilst a boy the same age being an arsehold is 'just being a boy"

[birdsdestiny]

Painting I agree about the house in Shieldfield except when I drove through Shieldfield the other day I noticed an absolutely enormous house, it looked completely out of place, next to a row of shops, I have decided Joy lived there.

[LillianGish]

I have decided Joy lived there

[MissBarbary]

I also don't get the Lily hate along with the relatively free pass for the feckless, entitled Freddie

I don't give Freddy a free pass but he doesn't set himself up to be such a saint. I don't understand the adoration of Lily. Her main talent was she was good at passing exams - a very useful talent but hardly exceptional.

She failed miserably in the bigger world and ran home to her mother, lying about why she had returned.

The Lily actress and writing is very good- the Lily character is consistently played as a spoilt princess with a very high opinion of herself.

[MissBarbary]

And also any girl deviating from socially expected behaviour is "bad" whilst a boy the same age being an arsehold is 'just being a boy"

Oh give over. Freddy is an idiot and Lily is a vain, spoilt brat. Neither of them are likeable.

[MissBarbary]

Igenerally assume anyone using terms like "rancid little bitch", 'hysterical bitch", "catty bitch" etc is simply misogynistic and file the comments accordingly

One poster has used one of those terms.

[EBearhug]

She failed miserably in the bigger world and ran home to her mother, lying about why she had returned.

I think she could do very well if she didn't have Russ. And she's not quite 20. I don't think she can be written off yet.

[MissBarbary]

was groomed by a predatory middle aged man with nobody realising because all the focus is permanently on Freddie

Er, there was plenty of attention on Lily. The saintly Lily lied through her teeth to hide her relationship with CMR. She invented an imaginary friend, allowed Elizabeth to think she was a lesbian and roped Pheobe into going along with that lie.

[BertrandRussell]

“ She failed miserably in the bigger world and ran home to her mother, lying about why she had returned.”

Blimey. You expect a lot of 18 year olds, don't you?

[SurpriseSparDay]

Oh! Is it Lilian secretly scuppering Justin’s planning application thingummy? Would that keep the land free for re-wilding? (Was only vaguely listening.)

[Jaichangecentfoisdenom]

RIP Colin Skipp, or, as I like to think of him, the real Tony Archer. His finding of John dead is one of the few Archers' scenes which ever moved me to tears.

[Fink]

Paintingtheroseswhite We haven't heard what job Joy did/does, have we? Maybe while her husband was out with his dull job, she was off making millions in a mystery industry. Drug dealing (maybe she's come to Ambridge to rope Freddy into dealing for her)? Mafia boss? Banker? Lieutenant General in the army?