Archers thread #112: Quelle beau de lollox! And yet we stick with it. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like Alf to stay around, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @DoctorTwo for the thread title! I was strongly tempted by R4's suggestion of Wildlife on Four: Jonneh is wild at Lily, Phoebe rewilds by Occam, Joy is in the wilderness and David is bewildered by a marriage proposal.

So we did make it past Joe's funeral at last. Are we heading for a Christmas octogenarian wedding now?

What's an XX, R4?
It's Biology, innit. As opposed to an XY. You have to be careful how you describe them or you get called sexist.

Yeah, I wouldn't use 'bint'. It is sexist and condemnatory of women's sexuality. I would class it with 'tart' or 'slag'. Not an appropriate term

Not round these parts. It's gendered I agree and "daft bint" is tautologous as there is only one type of bint but nothing to do with sexuality. Defending its use is not a hill I'd die on but I don't see it as any worse than twit or twerp, who are always men.

Are you Midlands, too, MissBarbary? Agreed that it's to do with intelligence or common sense (lack of), nothing to do with sexuality.

I also hope Leanne is real. It doesn't much matter. Either she is real- so game over or she's fictitious for Lee partly to use as a defence mechanism for himself and possibly partly to get back at Helen for her appalling behaviour- so game over.

Lee's voice isn't as awful as Roy's. Roy is apparently good looking enough to have caught the eye of Kate, Hayley, Lizzie, Tracey and Lexi and be commented on favourably by Carol Tregorran. But his voice...

CMR, except when being an unbearable snob, has a voice which matches his (one assumes) attractiveness.

Are you Midlands, too, MissBarbary?

No, east coast Scotland.

silly bint I think it's Arabic for girl and possibly used in a sexist way but there may be other connotations I don't know about.

It indicates the person's heritage by the word ibn (ابن "son", colloquially bin) or ibnat ( "daughter", also بنت bint, abbreviated bte.). Ibn Khaldun (ابن خلدون) means "son of Khaldun". Khaldun is the father's personal name or, in this particular case, the name of a remote ancestor.
I checked, nothing bad about it in Arabic.

I think “bint” came into he vocabulary during the war. It was not intended as a compliment then.....it definitely meant tart or slag.

I only know the word because I was born in an Arabic speaking country. My parents certainly weren't used to 'staff' but it was usual to have a local girl or 'bint' to do the washing. It wasn't intended to be derogatory.

I think “bint” came into he vocabulary during the war. It was not intended as a compliment then.....it definitely meant tart or slag

I've never heard it used in that way.

This is from Dictionary.com
“ This British term is used with disparaging intent and perceived as insulting. It was originally British military slang, later adopted by Allied servicemen during both world wars.”

I think it's been about three threads since I last commented, so hopefully my excessive lurking doesn't devalue my point too much! But I've also only ever heard bint, used as a pretty strong insult, and an equivalent for slag in the part of the county I'm from - it was treated as insulting enough at my school to be worth demerits if you were heard calling your fellows by it! (Which twit was definitely not).

I am not feeling very sympathetic towards Kirsty - I really don't think that pushing Helen is the right move here. Helen clearly needs some help working through everything she's been through (I note especially her appalling self esteem lately whenever something goes even slightly wrong), and Kirsty should be supporting her in getting that help, not trying to push her into a relationship she is very clearly not ready for!

It was used in Fawlty Towers

Well whose fault is it then you cloth eared bint? Denis Compton's?!

“This British term is used with disparaging intent and perceived as insulting. It was originally British military slang, later adopted by Allied servicemen during both world wars.”
Well of course it's disparaging. But how do you jump from that definition to "it definitely meant tart or slag"?

The words 'girl' and 'woman' can be used with disparaging intent but that isn't their real meaning.

Welcome back, Deianira! I agree about Helen. She and Henry should be in permanent therapy, I'd say.

I first learnt the word bint when we read The Long and the Short and the Tall for GCSE. We were definitely given the impression it was derogatory, but I haven't read the play in the last 30 years to remember quite how it was used, but it left me with a dislike if the word.

I wonder if Johhny and Tom will bump into Lee (and possibly the mythical Leanne) in one of the Borchester pubs?

Don't know if Tom would recognise him, but Johnny certainly would from karate.

The Wikipedia write-up about Borchester says that Helen's Borsetshire Blue cheese is sold in Underwoods.

I don't recall when that happened. Is it true?

Wasn't that quite early on? I think they were one of the buyers who were thinking of stopping when the quality went down.

I mght be totally making this up.

Wasn't it the Da Vinci Code or something?

Fair enough, I stand corrected about the major world literature bit. Dredging the recesses of my mind - I think the it might have been when Helen had to go to France to see the Montbeliards and wasn't used to having time to herself ... and Lee recommended the Da Vinci Code as his favourite ever book. Was that it?

Yes Fink , I think there was much debate on whether the Da Vinci was such an amazing book.
I agreed with Kirsty kicking Helen out of the car: to stand him up really would have added insult to injury.

I've just been re-reading The Franchise Affair (which really, really, hasn't aged well at all) and was surprised to come across 'bint' being used in a clearly derogatory way. It was written in 1948, which would bear out the idea that the term came into usage during WW2. Previously, I had thought it was a fairly neutral term for a female, derived from the Arabic for 'daughter'. (Thanks for that very illuminating explanation, CaptainMyCaptain and I love your username, too )

But kirsty shouldn't have egged her on to start with. Bit out of character for kirsty I would have thought. Of all people kirsty should have realised that a relationship might not be what Helen needs.

Oh, I disagree! I’d say The Franchise Affair is still a masterclass in the craft of writing. Sure, attitudes and hierarchies have evolved since it was written, but it’s still fabulous. (I once shared it with a ten year old who found it fascinating!)