Archers thread #112: Quelle beau de lollox! And yet we stick with it. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like Alf to stay around, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @DoctorTwo for the thread title! I was strongly tempted by R4's suggestion of Wildlife on Four: Jonneh is wild at Lily, Phoebe rewilds by Occam, Joy is in the wilderness and David is bewildered by a marriage proposal.

So we did make it past Joe's funeral at last. Are we heading for a Christmas octogenarian wedding now?

In case anyone is interested, on Desert Island Discs this morning was a lady named Isabella Tree who seems to be some kind of rewilding pioneer. (Perhaps some nominative determinism going on too?)

I find the Lily-hate on here deeply and depressingly misogynist.

i agree Bert

Well it happens, it's not misogyny I have always liked Lily, just a statement of fact Iam not defending CMR either.

I remember our college !

(Perhaps some nominative determinism going on too?)
Same with the oak-tree expert, Mr Green?

I suggest that Rewilding Trio switch off their phones, grab a crayon and listen to Desert Island Disks. Isabella Tree is going to be talking about rewilding. Even at Knepp, where they owned the land, they relied heavily on public funding in the form of stewardship grants.

Oh, it’s misogyny all right.

Germaine Greer is also a champion of rewilding; her (large) garden and some Australian rainforest. She could do an excellent cameo.

I'm very much not a cheerleader for Lily but I would seriously doubt that the 40-ish deputy head of a college, married, in a position of responsibility, was groomed by a teenager into having a relationship with her against his better judgment and all professional ethics. Not to mention the fact that everything since then has indicated that CMR is the one who has his hooks into her (and her stately home and vulnerable, easily manipulated mother) and isn't letting go in a hurry - or maybe not without that Gwen John in his suitcase.

Back to the attics. Surely the whole point of Freddie's doomed Attic Tours idea was that they were already stuffed with atmospheric old fittings and furniture? Haven't we heard scenes where he's actually been sorting through old artefacts in the attic? None of this absurd SL makes the remotest bit of sense.

She was an 18-year-old Russ was responsible for, as SLT at her college. Girls that age can come across as being incredibly worldly wise and 'adult', but anyone who is a parent to one or teaches them will know that they are often still very vulnerable in a lot of ways. Especially if they have tragically lost a father and are drawn to an older male who perhaps fills a bit of the void. There's physical, measurable, evidence that young people's brains aren't fully mature until the mid-twenties: especially the bit that controls impulse control.

For goodness sake, she was groomed, or near as such. Yes, we've all been teenage girls and many may have had a crush on a teacher, but to say that the adult teacher isn't the person responsible in this scenario is quite awful.

And last night's episode was pure tripe. With the added annoyance of that lazy device of people speaking over each other so having a misunderstanding that could've been cleared up in a second if Clarrie had actually listened to the creep saying he wasn't there for rehearsals.

Accusing Lily of grooming, is reminiscent of the language that caused the girls in Rotherham to be ignored for years.

Changing the subject, I was surprised that the shortlist of 3 contained 2 younger men.

If I lived in Ambridge, I'd be constantly losing my rag, and telling people to shut the f up and listen to what I'm trying to say. Clarrie not giving CMR a chance to speak, gave me the rage, as it always does when they use that trope. Can't they think of any other ways to steer the storyline?

Then he went with her to Manchester, insisted on a flat outside the student area, refused to get a job “I’ll stay home and pursue my art and cook nice meals for you to come home to”. Lily made no friends, had to get a job, didn’t keep up with her studies. Her family was focussed entirely on Freddie. But yes, she groomed Russ. Fuck me.

Used to listen pre sleep, phone pressed up to ear, drifting off afterwards with a smile.

Now only able to listen while on the crapper, with phone in distant room. Works a treat.

(May I add, Bertrand, that you are top of my imaginary Christmas card list.)

A teacher at the school I went to had an affair with a Sixth Fomer.
When I was in the 6th form, one of my fellow students was stunning - tall, slim, hourglass figure, naturally blonde, clear skin and he had his eye on her - not sure if anything happened but there was definitely some grooming type behaviour.

The teacher was unpleasant and his absolutely lovely wife was also a teacher at the school.

There was one very goodlooking teacher, and I'm sure that it might have been why his subect was exceptionally popular. There was a rumour about him and a sixth former a few years before my time.

The teachers should know better.

OK, it's not Sixth Form any more but I'm middle aged

Lily was 17 when she first got together with Russ.

Teachers constantly get young girls developing pashes on them and throwing themselves at them, and if they take up the opportunity that offers it would be utterly ludicrous to say that the girls in question "groomed" them.

@BuckingFrolics-thank you!

Add to the list of Russ's tactics the fact that he failed to do anything about drug-dealing in college and kept quiet about it in order to keep his own activities quiet.

He's also really quite weird about her interactions with people her own age - if she seems upset or "off" in any way related to discussions with people like Johnny, he always wants to know all the details.

surely a village of 3000 people would have more than one struggling pub, one struggling shop and one church?

Oh, I agree! The village of 3000 approx people I once lived in had, in addition, a butcher, a doctors surgery, junior school, couple more pubs, hairdresser, country hotel ...

Tbf Ambridge does have the Ambridge Organics shop and tea room as well. And a smart hotel. But I always insert a belief that all those burgeoning housing estates definitely must have generated an extra shop or two - they’re just not connected to Archers so we never hear about them.

Lily was 17 when she first got together with Russ

She must have been 18 surely as she had inherited the painting - which was the ridiculous reason for Lily coming to CMR's attention.

Teachers constantly get young girls developing pashes on them and throwing themselves at them, and if they take up the opportunity that offers it would be utterly ludicrous to say that the girls in question "groomed" them

Yes it is ludicrous to say he was groomed by her but I also think it is ludicrous to compare Lily with the girls in Rotherham. Lily gets credit on here for being so grown-up and sensible on the rare occasions she does anything sensible but instantly becomes a child when she does something stupid.

Both CMR are grown-up enough to know that right from the beginning what they were doing was wrong. Both CMR and Lily bear responsibility for not letting Elizabeth know about Freddy's dealing. Of course the primary blame there is on Freddy but they both knew and kept silent.

Teenage girls do not 'groom' their Middle aged school teachers into sexual relationships

But surely the Deputy Head of the college who has direct responsibility for the safety and welfare of the students bears much more responsibility than any one of the students?

"It’s a plot. They want everyone to turn off so the programme can be decommissioned. It’s the only possible explanation."

I last said this at the time Brookfield was moving up to Northumbria to look after Heatherpet, before anyone remembered that the farm was a limited company and David and Ruth couldn't just decide to up and go without reference to anyone else in the family/finding the money to pay the other shareholders members off. I stopped listening round then, started again After the Flood and stopped again when the Rob/Helen storyline really got going.
The time before that was when Nigel fell off the roof. I stopped listening for about a year after that. Made my way back in via "Ambridge Extra", that time.
CMR is benign, compared to that lot. Though I've not listened to the last couple of episodes.

Lily was 17 when she first got together with Russ

The situation was very carefully set up - atypical for current storylines - for everything to be legal. It was her eighteenth birthday present that prompted Lily to approach Russ in the first place.