The Archers #109: Pulp Fiction! Hammer Horror (Tracy), Carry On (Brian & Neil), Call the Midwife (Adam, Ian, Lexi) - but no political thrillers, Ambridge remains Brexit-free. Nitpick here!

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other unusual views. grin

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to Bucking Frolics and LillianGish for the title ideas, which I had to edit down a bit to get under the character limit.

I wonder if Lily will have gone back to Manchester by the time we've filled this thread.

David is a dimwit. He doesn't like the idea of King of Meat so he prefers putting his livestock through an abattoir run by those lovely, cuddly people at BL. I wouldn't trust them!
The co-op needs to control their own means of production, via backing from Peggy.

They have a treetop walk and a vineyard that nobody mentions (excellent job for Freddie in due course), but I can't remember any mention of sheep/cows/tractors so it is presumably lawn/grassland?

There is the haha that Nigel built or dug out or whatever one does to make one of those. To me that suggests cattle on the other side of it from the house: that's what a haha is for after all. It there are no cattle why did he bother?

The Pargetters also owned six neighbouring farms, all leased out; Nigel point-blank refused to sell one to pay for some scheme of Elizabeth's, at one point, and he also refused to let one to a member of the Archer family though I can't remember who it was who assumed he would.

C8H10N4O2 do you feel similarly that the egg donor has been taken advantage of

Egg donation is a very different process with a different impact. I know several women who have donated eggs for research or infertility support intended (at the time) for couples going through IVF who couldn't use the woman's eggs. Whilst they took hormones for a short period of time (and that isn't risk free with hindsight) the impact on their lives was the odd scan and an egg collection appt.

Egg/Sperm donation is very different. The ethical concern for the donor is around concerns over a child not knowing its genetic heritage or possibly finding out when they haven't been told. Some people are fine with that others are not.

A surrogate takes far more risks, endures a much greater impact and increasingly is likely to be poor or at least low income compared to the clients. Its the process and commerce and exploitation around surrogacy which is the issue. I think its irresponsible for TA to have a storyline which is all hearts and flowers on the subject without even touching on the ethics other than to dismiss them as small minded. Especially at a time when there is a powerful lobby group (mostly powerful men) pushing to get much closer to the kind of laws used in the US. The authorities already tacitly support that approach by allowing wealthy British nationals to procure women abroad with impunity.

Tracey played a blinder with Elizabeth- “see you on the 29th- I eat everything except celery”. Brilliant.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime did Nigel dig the ha ha? I always thought of it as some historic landscaping feature from the Lower Loxley of bygone centuries.

There is the haha that Nigel built or dug out or whatever one does to make one of those

Wasn't the haha at Ambridge Hall? I'm sure I remember Lynda going on about it or possibly they both have one?

David is a dimwit

I think we can agree on that

Now wondering if the great plan to buy the defunct abattoir will somehow feature in the magical trust's largesse.

The thought of an abattoir makes me shudder. I hope it's a storyline they conveniently forget.

Ha ha definitely at Lower Loxley, I can hear Elizabeth saying “ha ha” in my mind right now!

Not to mention Russ hiding behind it (how? a haha is a hole in the ground, not a building) and getting stung by a wasp while he was skiving. There are bits in Lowfield in 2007 and 2008 while it was being built, and all concern Nigel and Elizabeth; there is no Lowfield mention of a haha at Ambridge Hall.

But Nigel did build it then @Asking! Well I never.

A HaHa's not a hole in the ground. It's more like a terrace. I used to stay with some friends who worked for the Lord and Lady of the Manor, and lived in one of the cottages, down in Surrey, and there was one in the grounds there. (The house was lovely.)

I think there might also have been one in the grounds of The Royal Holloway uni, in Egham. Another gorgeous place. I did my week long OU summer school there.

I sort of approve of the abattoir storyline. It's almost refreshing to be dealing with a purely farming story.

My husband had half an ear on TA when Russ got stung in the ha ha (ho ho). I said “do you know what a ha ha is?”

“Yes” said he “there was one at my prep school”. Very much A Man of the People, Mr Aardvaark.

Ha ha

Saut de loup? Is that a wolf jump? French ha-has are clearly more sinister.

Totally agree with caffeine .
Not discussing the ethics at all is a bit like not even mentioning Brexit.
On the subject of OTT Joy earlier in the week, what is the correct etiquette when someone invites themselves round at a time that is inconvenient? I didn’t hear Kirsty even try to say ‘actually, I’m catching up with an old friend right now. Maybe later?’ . If I was Lexi I’d be annoyed with Kirsty as the host for just letting her walk in.

So I thought some of last night’s episode was quite funny. Nobody said anything saucy or mentioned male genitalia, it was subtle (well Tracy and Elizabeth wasn’t subtle but they were in character and I did smile). Brian’s “good lord!” at the idea of running for health was perfectly delivered. Even Lynda being totally oblivious about how annoying she was being was Ok, up to a point.

I agree with both those posts, Taswama and chemenger. (Also amused/aghast in equal measure about being driven over rough ground in a Land Rover to kickstart labour! )

I eat meat. Not a huge amount, and I do try to make it British/Irish for the higher welfare standards/to keep air miles to a minimum. Given this, I would prefer abattoirs to be small, well-run and local to the farms delivering the animals. This seems like a good farming storyline, so I hope it continues.

Good to hear Elizabeth again. It makes me hope that we are finally going to hear from Lily too. I have a terrible foreboding, though, that she's not going to back to Manchester. WE can expect another miraculous transfer to the invisible member of the Russell Group, Felpersham University, I'd put money on it.

We. I wasn't shouting!

I didn’t hear Kirsty even try to say ‘actually[...]

Could this be Kirsty?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3690673-To-think-guests-dont-get-to-dictate-the-time-they-arrive

what is the correct etiquette when someone invites themselves round at a time that is inconvenient?

But it wasn’t an inconvenient time - and Kirsty behaved perfectly. Going round to meet one’s new neighbours is a lovely, civilised thing to do - and I wish life was still like that ...

I know several women who have donated eggs for research or infertility support I do believe it helps you think about it differently when you know the people involved. I know someone who used a surrogate (due to not being able to carry her own child). It was a friend who offered to help, her own family was complete and she was always very clear that the baby she was carrying for my friend was not hers (it was more like very early babysitting). It obviously takes a very special kind of woman to offer (in the same way that it takes a very special kind of person to adopt and I hate it when people who have never adopted bandy the term around as if it were a simple and straightforward aIternative to having your own children). I can see how surrogacy could be exploitative, but that doesn’t mean all surrogacy is exploitative. In the case of Lexi and Adam and Ian, she was a friend and she has been compensated for her loss of earnings. She wasn’t doing it for the money, she was doing it for them and the knock on effect was she could stop working and spend time with her own children (without in any way damaging her career prospects). She hasn’t had a particularly difficult pregnancy - indeed her main complaint when she got back to Ambridge was that she was bored, she didn’t have enough to do. I don’t think you’d offer if you’d had horrendous pregnancies and difficult births. I think it’s a reasonable subject for TA to tackle as it it is something - we’ve previously had stories tackling Shula’s infertility problems and Helen’s decision to go it alone with Henwee. I therefore don’t see why we can’t discuss it on here - just as we discuss and dissect every other detail.

Joy reminded me of Vicki. Was she a Brummie? Joy(ce) as a name is in need of a revival imo.
Love Lynda and her vocabulary - irksome isn’t a word you hear nearly often enough! I also think she’ll make a great birthing partner for Lexi.

I’m looking forward to hearing Lily again. I think the CallMeRuss story could go one of two ways - either she’ll finally admit the truth to Elizabeth, ditch Russ and go back to Manchester alone or, she’ll chuck it all in, go to Felpersham and help run LL and he’ll stay on in the art gallery. I’m hoping for the former.

I’ve now listened to the entire episode and I would like to award Tracey with a BOOP and Lynda with a BOOPBOOP . Sublime performance by both of them.

@QuaterMiss I would consider it inconvenient as she already had a guest. I also consider it rude if I’ve agree to catch up with a friend and they invite someone else along, as it changes the dynamic. I am an introvert however and realise that this is an issue that divides introverts and extroverts.