Discuss The Archers #108: Has Ed & Emma’s ship sailed? Will Alice stick her oar into Kate's love life? Can Shula walk on water? Come and discuss whatever floats your boat in The Archers.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads and @DadDadDad for being our resident statistician and keeping the ball rolling when Pseudo stepped back a bit.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @QuaterMiss for the title of this thread. For reasons of space had to cut out the bit speculating about Oliver and Tracy pairing off. Surely not!

Off now to give blood, something nobody in Ambridge ever does. See you all later.

Bits I like at present:
The Jim storyline, especially now its not central for a bit - thats like real life.
I like the Jenny agony aunt, and interaction with Brian. Yes bits are silly, but Jenny has needed something to do and as they don't have U3A in Ambridge...
The abattoir story could be good if we don't get too much of pantomime villain Vince.

The Grey Gables story is total nonsense - but will probably have a "hilarious" conclusion, then fade away. I do wonder if it is clumsy changing direction in scripting, so Tracey quits and ends up at the Bull and hopefully Emma gets the receptionist's job.

Just think, a few weeks ago we were saying that it was all a bit heavy and intense with the Jim storyline. We needed some light relief. Then we got Brian's premature problems and the ghost at GG.
Be careful what you wish for.

I was only able to listen intermittently yesterday as am on holiday with dodgy Wi-fi. Clarrie called Bev because she had a flat tyre? If so, then as deranged as Will sounded he had a point in that she could have just put Poppy in her car seat whilst the problem was resolved. They were in a supermarket car park, not stuck miles away in the middle of nowhere.

Overall the whole Bev-Will showdown was ludicrous.Will should have called her bluff and contacted the police. She cannot remove her grandchild without parental consent because she thinks said parent is struggling to cope, has visited A&E too frequently and has taken his child to work in the middle of the night. None of the aforementioned is great but neither Social Services nor the police would remove a child on those grounds.

To be fair, though, there's a difference between what social services and the police can or will do in practice, and what people think they can do. There is generally a major problem with people refusing to contact SS for help they are entitled to for fear their child will be taken into care despite the fact that it simply isn't going to happen, and indeed we regularly see that fear in posts on MN. So it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that both Bev and Will think what they said was correct. However, in the interests of public information, what needs to happen now is that someone like Usha comes along and spells out the facts.

Why is David so mystified by the problem of finding a new abattoir? Surely the coop regularly reviews their contract and looks at other options? He is also heavily involved with the NFU, is there really nobody in that who knows anything about abattoirs?

I think there are not many abbattoirs. The 'big guys' dominate the market according to Brian's slightly dodgy-sounding chum at the market. Long journeys can mean welfare issues.

@Tonnerre yes on reflection I think it is quite realistic that Will and Bev think Poppy could be removed. The fear of what 'the Social' might do prevents parents from seeking help. My sister is a Social Worker. If she had a pound for every occasion she has heard people assert that seeking help is the worst thing you can do (apparently once a family is on 'Social Services radar' they are doomed and the children will be taken into care) she'd be able to retire.

She's also been reliably informed that there is a dedicated team of Social Workers who regularly visit neo-natal units solely to find newborn babies they can falsely claim are at risk so they can offer them to parents who want to adopt...

@tonnerre , yes you would have that someone will have given a little bit of legal clarification. But we have already had chapter and verse over PR with Helen and Rob, so the script writers think they have already done PR. Presumably we are meant to accept a grandparent can unilaterally decide where a child lives.

If only there was an internet source where a parent could post to say 'I was widowed last year leaving me with a young child. I've been depressed and struggled to cope, but I have a supportive family close by. My mil has taken my dd and says if I try to take her back she will take me to court to say I am a bad parent. Can she do this?'

I think the problem with these storylines is that there is a lot that happens off mic that is easy to miss. E.g. Clarrie contacting Bev only makes sense if Bev and Clarrie are in touch. Bev has no doubt heard a lot from Jake and Mia and if I was her I'd be beside myself worrying about Poppy. I bet Poppy not 'being herself' the norm now and not just measles.

Re abattoirs, I remember a few years ago, on a smallholding forum I was on, there were people complaining that their local abattoirs were closing. I think the government changed some legislation, meaning that the smaller abattoirs were finding it difficult or impossible to carry on. these were the abattoirs that would process smaller numbers of animals, the larger ones wouldn't always accept these numbers, or if they did, they charged more per animal. The larger ones are also more likely to be the ones that have the problems with cruelty etc. It also meant people were having to transport their livestock longer distances, (sometimes much longer) causing them more stress.

So I can understand the worry David and Brian have.

The way I heard it, Bev had left Poppy with Jake and Mia because she wanted to have a chat with Clarrie about the things Poppy had been telling her about going out at night with Will and the repeated trips to A&E. It was reasonable that she wanted to chat with Clarrie out of earshot of Poppy. Will himself left Mia caring for Poppy often enough, so she didn't expect that to be a problem. Bev hadn't expected to see Will himself.

Will was hostile and irrational from the start, Bev reacted accordingly, and the whole thing spiralled from there, Will threatened to call the police and Bev responded with the threat of court.

Bev may not have intended to keep Poppy until she became alarmed by Will's behaviour. It was Will who escalated things by responding to Bev's "I'm only suggesting keeping her for a few days" by threatening to call the police and have Bev arrested for kidnapping.

But it wasn't her place to decide where he grandchild stays. She turned up at Clarrie's without Poppy. If she wanted a quiet word with Clarrie that wasn't the way to do it.

How was Will meant to react? I think most parents, if informed their mother-in-law was keeping their child for a few days, would kick off.

Carrie was useless, simmering on about it only being for a few days as it was her fault in the first place.

How was Will meant to react? I think most parents, if informed their mother-in-law was keeping their child for a few days, would kick off.

This wouldn't have come up at all if Will had not already shut Bev out - if Poppy had been seeing her once a week or so, Bev wouldn't be feeling the need to talk to Clarrie about how things are going (other than normal everyday passing conversation.) It's understandable that Will is concerned Bev is taking Poppy away, especially as he was already paranoid about that happening, but as far as we're aware, it's been a lot longer than getting chickenpox since she saw Jake and Mia or Bev, and they are her family, too. Will never speaks to anyone or asks for support, and he's clearly not coping, so he has forced the situation in that sense. If he were more open and reasonable in the first place, then probably Mia would still be living there and George would go round and Jake would visit and Bev would be involved.

None of this will cause Will to reflect on his own actions in reaching this point and change his behaviour though, because as has been pointed out, he always blames others.

But Will was already kicking off before Bev said anything about keeping Poppy. Bev had done Clarrie a favour taking Poppy at short notice while Clarrie got her tyre fixed. Will was agitated from the start, about a perfectly reasonable set of circumstances.

But it wasn't Clarrie's fault. The problem arose because alarm bells were ringing due to Will's conduct. Quite apart from the issue about taking Poppy out with him when he was working, the way he's been acting recently refusing to let her have contact with anyone till he decides she's 100% well is enough to cause pretty serious concerns. If it wasn't for Bev, I suspect he'd keep her off school which would ultimately cause even greater problems.

Did I understand correctly that Will has taken a lot of time off work to care for Poppy while she had chicken pox?

yep. and during hunting season as well

Did I understand correctly that Will has taken a lot of time off work to care for Poppy while she had chicken pox?
Will has gone from dragging her out of her bed to go looking for poachers to staying home with her 24/7. One extreme to the other. He can't do 'normal'.

All this with changing tyres in the carpark and whatnot happened on his first day back at work.

I think I can answer my own question about the point of the abattoir storyline. Rewilding will win Peggy's mone. Brookfield will decide that because the abattoir has closed and because they made such a roaring success of the wedding, they're getting rid of all their livestock and and going wild. Gavel.

Therapist given that that is wildly implausible I imagine that you have it completely right.

I assume if they get rid of all their livestock David will have to shoot Ben’s sheepdog (which seems to have vanished anyway) in a merging of the plots of Old Yeller and the badger episode.

He is due another murder.

FGS Emma—why did you tell Ed about Will kissing her?!

This really is a dilemma for the Grundy’s. Will needs proper help, not just a cup of tea and some sympathy and babysitting from his family. If they seek help he’s going to lose his gun license and then his job (I assume).