Discuss The Archers #107: Beware of the Dragon! Peggy's in her den awaiting bids - who gets the hoard and who gets flamed?

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads and @DadDadDad for being our resident statistician and keeping the ball rolling when Pseudo stepped back a bit.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @MrsGrindah for inspiration for the title of this thread. I was hoping to find a way to combine it with @C8H10N4O2's inspired suggestion of '"The Assumption of the Ambridge Angel' and @chemenger's comment 'I hope she gets kicked in the head by a horse and wakes up an atheist', but it all got a bit too lengthy.

Odds on Joe shuffling off this mortal coil before this thread ends? We've been marking/anticipating his passing for a while now.

I don't mean it to be harsh. The only house I've ever owned went into negative equity when house prices crashed a few months after we'd bought it, then we had to move to the other end of the country for work and couldn't shift the house for love nor money so were left renting it out for less than the mortgage repayments, at the same time as paying rent in the new place, and having to pay an agent to manage it for us as we weren't local enough to be able to keep an eye on it. I know what it's like to be threatened with losing everything and I really wouldn't recommend taking the risk. Yes, I'd rather house prices were affordable for ordinary people, but while they're not I do think it's foolish to risk everything when you know it's at the very limit of what you can afford - what would they have done if the interest rates had risen, or Emma had got sick, or they had a major repair to cover just outside the warranty period ...?

Silvercatowner, a special welcome to the thread from me

I don't know what I made of tonight's episode, although I mainly thought Emma was venting. If she was speaking to a woman friend, I think the friend would have realised this. But IME a male takes the vent at face value, and acts accordingly. In mid vent Emma said some very hurtful things to Ed, she probably regretted saying them, but they cannot be taken back.

Not a regular poster but have listened since I was 7 .. 45 years and WOW that was some amazing dialogue.. well done SW

Well I will be even more callous. If Emma separates from Ed for good then her children will have a chance.

Very late thank you to whoever posted the pictures of the locations. I never realised the Dower House was that big.

My god that was hard to listen to. Is that in character though - I'd not have thought Ed would do that.

I'm with Slivery on this. What Emma said to Ed can't be unsaid. Excellent script and acting.

They could have been prosecuted for fraud had their mortgage lender found out

That is extremely unlikely. As long as they kept up the payments the mortgage company would never know. Even if they defaulted the mortgage holder is only interested in calling up and re-selling. Mortgage fraud which leads to criminal prosecutions is nothing like this. It usually involves fake over valuations and very deliberate scams.

They had a war chest of over £18,000 to cover the monthly payments.

Heartbreaking. I know Emma said harsh things but I get it, I really do! I've never been that close to owning a place. I have 2 teens and I have always felt sad that, in private rental, I've never been able to guarantee them security. It has made me feel like I have failed them. To be that close, and to have it entirely fucked up by Ed's stupidity... well, I think I'd be saying worse tbh.

And my rent is WAY higher than any friends' mortgages. The 'risk' of taking on a mortgage is not that great when you consider what private rentals are.

Just listened to tonight’s episode...it was a hard listen. Brilliant acting and writing, Emma’s desperation was palpable. Wonder where this will all go now?

I can see how Ed has had enough of being her whipping boy. Where will Emma and the kids live though? Not with Will, surely to god no.

But mostly just a harrowing, amazing episode fabulously acted.

Ed breaks the law to earn money for the deposit but then feels duty bound to tell the mortgage company that he has lost his job? Oh please 🙄

Nope. Not a good storyline in my opinion. Doesn't fit somehow and feels very out of character given that the Grundys are happy to cut corners everywhere else.

Emma would/will be better off without him.

A very difficult episode to listen to none the less. 😞

What next? It will take Emma a long long time to get over this.

I wonder how the village will react when they realise what has happened. Will Justin be driven out with pitchforks for not giving them an extension? And what about Adam for sacking him?

And will Ed shop Tim now that he has nothing more to lose?

Where will Emma and the kids live though? Not with Will, surely to god no

There's no reason why George can't live with his father.

1 The Green has 3 bedrooms. Clarrie , Eddie , Emma and Keira can stay there. They could fit George in but at 15 there is no reason George can't stay with his father.

I imagine Ed could live with his parents. George with Will. Emma and Kiera with her parents?

Oh no, don't let George go to Will, that'll be awful. He couldn't cope with Jake, Mia, and Poppy, there's no way he should be given care of another child.

I'm sure the Magic Bedroom Fairy could visit Neil and Susan. Or possibly she'll move in with Aunty Tracy. Keira can share with Chelsea and George with Brad. Do Bert and Gary still live there too? It must be the world's biggest council house. Plus they'll be just down the road from Eddie and Clarrie, if they still move.

But given that this whole saga is about Emma wanting her own place, surely she'll move out somewhere with the kids.

Ed can stay with his parents and, for the moment, Joe, which seems ideal for him.

Or maybe they'll be one of those couples who split up but can't actually afford to live separately. Probably not though, in a drama, although I'd say it's the most likely IRL, given that government assistance doesn't seem to exist in Ambridge except for those who have been occupying a council house for decades. Otherwise Emma would be a prime candidate for getting moved into a hovel somewhere nowhere near Ambridge by the council.

I wonder if the SW have been planning the end of Emma and Ed for a while. It's over a year ago that she stood for the parish council. Surely even that was a small sign that she and Ed had different plans and ambitions.

I'd love a proper breakdown of Ed and Emma's finances. They've both always worked, even if it's minimum wage, and I can't honestly imagine Emma paying tax on the money she earned from cleaning. OK, so the chicken factory job is zero hours and probably minimum wage, but it's not her only income by a long chalk.

Ed has fingers in numerous pies, not to mention the money from Peppa Pig and the dastardly Tim, he has work at Brookfield as well as Home Farm before he was sacked, and numerous contracts with his tractor around the place. They'd also be entitled to benefits.

They have subsidised rent - Oliver won't be charging them anywhere near market rate for the farm. I don't think they've ever had to pay for childcare. They don't appear to be particularly spendthrift - I'd love to have a look at their budget!

How much do we reckon the new house would have cost - they'd have been entitled to 'help to buy', it was a cheaper house than most on the development, so say £200K or thereabouts.

Ed should probably not have contacted the bank - surely they would already have done employment checks etc.

I understand Emma is desperate, but she has been pretty much hysterical over the last week - DH and I were trying to think who we'd ask for money in a similar situation, and the only people we would think about approaching would be parents and possibly siblings, but anyone other than that, definitely not. She is sounding incredibly entitled. Her situation is largely down to her life choices - she's an intelligent woman who obviously has some ambition, but she's too ready to blame other people for her situation. Both Ed and Emma have had lots of help over the years from parents, Caroline and Oliver and friends - Jazzer helped Ed when he was at his lowest ebb, Fallon and Helen have been good friends to Emma - Helen at least has looked after Keira. Brookfield have put quite a lot of casual work Ed's way.

Not unsympathetic , but obviously their relationship isn't anywhere near as solid as we've been led to believe.

I think somebody should be keeping a very watchful eye on Ed. Who’s he closest friends with? Chris? Jazzer?

That episode didn’t make sense to me. Why on earth would Ed tell the mortgage lender? He said something about can’t put the kids through it...what does he think leaving them will do?! It was really out of character again. The whole storyline has been brilliantly acted and with great dialogue, but some very odd and inexplicable behaviour.Still, it’s engaged me which hasn’t happened for a long time.

That was a hard listen.

BOOP to the SW, actors, director, Editor. I think that's the end of the road for Ed and Emma. Can't see how they could get back from that.

They were supposed to exchange contracts yesterday, not complete. Somebody definitely said that earlier in the week. They may well have muddled the terms earlier but that was only a couple of days ago so if they didn't exchange the deposit is still safe. I hope so. I couldn't bear it if they lost that as well.

I hope Emma doesn't end up back with Will. Surely too much water under that bridge too. (Not sure that works as a metaphor but then seeing the pictures of the bridge destroyed in N Yorks this week in flooding ...)

I thought Ed's behaviour was quite credible, actually - not logical, but logic isn't his strong point, in spite of his Thinking Skills course many years ago after the TWOCing incident. He got drawn into working for Tim O'PlotDevice little by little and didn't have the backbone to pull out sharpish when he realised what was going on. He's paid a heavy price for that and he's right, Emma totally ignored all the signs that he wasn't happy because all she cared about was building up the deposit.

All week Emma's been focused totally on not losing the house. Pretty clear she would do anything for that, and from Ed's point of view it must look as if all she values about him is his earning potential as she can't get a mortgage on her own. So he can see years and years ahead of endless stress over paying the mortgage and he can't face it. Plus, he's broken the law once in a big way, paid a heavy price, doesn't want to compound matters by breaking it again, albeit in a way that almost certainly wouldn't have been detected.

Yes, he's running away. Yes, Emma has every right to want security and a home of their own. No winners here.

The fallout from this is going to be epic. Grim listening ahead for the foreseeable future. I hope this isn't going to be how they kill Joe off.

Oh God - just what will they tell the children?

Also I never thought it would be Ed walking out on Emma...