Thread #106: Jim’s in a jam, Peggy’s made a pickle and Lexi is blooming - sounds like the entries are lining up for this year’s flower and produce show, but who will be on the organising committee?

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads and @DadDadDad for being our resident statistician and keeping the ball rolling when Pseudo stepped back a bit.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to LillianGish for the title of this thread.

Holding episode tonight, I thought - not much progress on any current storyline. I was a touch surprised Natasha wasn't offended by the postnup idea but I suspect she's biding her time.

My Salvation Army neighbours said their prayer group would pray for my daughter who has been ill. I thanked them although I don't believe people who make a good recovery do so because they have a lot of friends praying for them and those who don't will die. I appreciated the good will.

I can't see how it's polite, they don't need to know. It's just thoughts in your head.

Motoko - they don't need to know. But if you are talking to someone you know well enough (such as Shula to Jim) you might well ask if they mind, especially if like Jim they had well known Atheistic views. I wouldn't presume with someone I didn't know well - unless maybe they had massively opened up over something and it wasn't something I could do anything practical to help (e.g. Father dying on the other side of the world).

Well, Shula's approach got positive results. And I think Jim accepted with grace (eventually.) Instead of saying something acerbic as he used to do.They both respected each other in a way we had not heard before.

I was thinking this morning about Joe Grundy.

It's been a while now since Ted Kelsey died, and it got me wondering how Joe is to be written out.

I've an 'orrible feeling that the SWs are waiting until Lexi has the baby, so that they can have a 'one in, one out ' storyline.

Somehow, to me, that would be rather distasteful - and maybe a bit disrespectful.

Joe deserves at least a whole episode devoted to him - and to the Grundy family, as they each find out about his sad demise.

That's just my own opinion, but how do you all think the SWs are going to do it?

I think they will give him a whole episode linked to the grundies moving out. However I admire your irritation at the scriptwriters over something they haven't done yet, shows good forward planning

Some years ago when I was rather ill (had been dx with a life threatening illness) I had a friend/acquaintance saying she’d like to pray for me. She was specifically looking for permission as she knew I was a non-believer. I just laughed and said ‚Well it looks like I need all the help I can get‘ and the conversation moved on. I felt that it was harmless to me and might help the other person feel a bit better. Anyway it must have done something cos I’m still here.

I think they will tie Joe's death to the move. I think he will die in Grange Farm, it is what he would want. I think they will do it well; there will be a dignity to it.

I don’t think it’s really AGES since Edward Kelsey died. They’ve waited 6 months at least for previous actors, or so I’m thinking. Phil A and Julia P being the ones I’m thinking of. I think they also consult with the actor’s family so the time feels okay for them too. The difference with this death is that it’s come at a time when the script already has a change lined up for the fictional family - and they also have a lot more lined up for the Grundys it would seem. I’d hope at least Poppy can have some happy days with Beverley and that Will is ok about this before they kill off Joe. Not sure if they can save Ed n Em from ruin though.

It feels very weird knowing Joe is going to die soon. When someone first posted here that the actor had died, I wanted to post ‘no spoilers please’ but of course I saw it in the press shortly afterwards anyway.

I would have thought that even if the actor hadn’t died they would want Joe’s life to end at Grange Farm. If there had been one continuous editor over the past few years I’d imagine they would already have a story organised. Having to contend with all the strands that have been introduced by the 97 must make things more awkward as regards long term planning.

Harking back a moment, it seems to me that Shula is strange.

I mean, if an adult male I know was very upset when he saw another, slightly older male and reacted with fury and distress, I wouldn't leap to the conclusion (as she must have leaped, since nobody seems to have told her) that my acquaintance was sexually abused by the man who made him incoherently angry. I'd be far more likely to think that the other man had had an affair with my acquaintance's wife and wonder whether the reason his son is so upset is that he has just found out he may not be my acquaintance's son at all.

Affairs are so much more usual than child-rape, really, as a thing that one thinks of. And even with the worst that various organisations are being shown to have done, it's still more often little girls than little boys being sexually assaulted that springs to mind.

We don't know how much Shula has guessed, nor which helpline number she gave Alistair. It could have been fairly generic about family relationships, which could cover rape, violence, affairs, all sorts.

We do know how much she's guessed. She accurately guessed that Jim was sexually assaulted when he was very young. If it had been a generic number she gave Alistair, he probably wouldn't have phoned them.

Shula was there when Jim destroyed his keyboard.

That was more than rage at a remembered affair. It was out of control out of proportion (to any behaviour previously experienced) and I can well believe Shula putting 2 and 2 together, especially after she'd witnessed Alistair's obvious shock after Jim's confession.

Bumply - exactly! Even Jim obviously knows she must have worked out what is going on.
Actually I think it is quite good of the SW to have worked out the other villagers reactions to Jim's behaviour. Shula saw a lot and has worked things out (but also knew Jim quite well before).
Linda also obviously knows that it was something traumatic and has just given him space, acceptance and rest when he visited her.
And Susan being utterly oblivious to anything being seriously wrong.

If someone had had an affair with Jim's wife and the result had been Alistair, Jim's fury at the same person sullying the keyboard and the desire to destroy the keyboard (as one is not allowed to do with either wife or child) would be entirely explicable. But no, it doesn't occur to Shula that sexual abuse is not the only possibility here.

Is society really in such a mess that if a man of eighty is seriously upset by the presence of another even older man the only rational conclusion to come to is that the older one sexually abused the younger?

Actually, putting all the pieces together I think abuse would be a pretty sensible conclusion to draw. Particularly considering Alasdair’s reaction. It was obviously something completely beyond him- I don’t think an affair would have affected him like that.

I agree, and I also think Alistair would have told Shula if Jim had said Alistair's mother had had an affair.

I feel more comfortable about using box set now, thanks all. Packed lunch was a new phrase to me when I started secondary school - I think I first encountered it on a letter home about a school trip. I'd have been inclined to say picnic before then, as far as I can recall. I always had school dinners. Not sure how many people brought their own lunch to school back in the 60s and 70s.

In awe of DDD's powers. I read that post after catching up with TA this morning. Are you sure you're not a SW?

Is society really in such a mess that if a man of eighty is seriously upset by the presence of another even older man the only rational conclusion to come to is that the older one sexually abused the younger?

Sadly in my experience it is only too common. And I would probably be a better listener now than I was in the past when even a pretty casual acquaintance asked why he had been so often targeted by "awful men".
But even then he was not the first man I knew had suffered some kind of sexual abuse in his past.

Back in the 60s 70s I used to go "home for lunch" something which is heavily discourage nowadays.

Years and years of Shula’s special relationship with God?

I’m out.

(She said ...)

How is Shula going to be effective as a vicar when everything has to be about Shula?

I think if DDD was a scriptwriter, the scripts would be much better!

It didn't take Shula long to change her mind about ordination.

I missed the beginning, and came in at the point she was discussing it with Alan. I'll listen to the whole episode tomorrow afternoon.

Surely Shula will have to do her vicaring in another parish, far, far away?

Knight - you have given me hope! Deliverance will eventually come to all deserving listeners.

Thank the Lord ...