Fast falls the eventide for Joe Grundy, the darkness deepens for Ed - will he be fenced in or is there still time for acts of pennants? Abide with us and discuss The Archers, thread #104!

[GabrielleNelson]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads and @DadDadDad for being our resident statistician and keeping the ball rolling when Pseudo stepped back a bit and more recently when someone forgot they had promised to start the next thread, ahem.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from this thread, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks also to LillianGish for the splendid thread title. As actor Edward Kelsey died last month, we have probably heard Joe Grundy for the last time, or will do very shortly. RIP Mr Kelsey; many thanks for creating a wonderfully vivid character, gnarly toenails and all.

As pointed out on the last thread, we're getting very close now to the 100th birthday of June Spencer, who plays Peggy Woolley. What an achievement! I hope the team manage to squeeze Peggy into that day's episode, come what may.

The varying ways we learn is fascinating R4 Being in Fr. for 50% of the time I've been attempting to improve my french, in various ways but just looking at the conjugation tables, repels me! I pick up much more from conversing with friends and acquaintances. (and learning from dictionaries etc. the 'correct' way to say such and such) Some on line courses and my reading isn't too bad.

DH loves the grammar like you, he did Latin at school which helps a lot too.

Yes acis Poor Freddie's self esteem is taking a battering, it's worrying. Lily hasn't helped.

Again I slightly disagree - I don’t believe Freddie is suffering from low self esteem. The opposite in fact - he’s discovering, to his horror, just how much effect his actions, his mere existence, have on other people. And he’s trying to work out how to navigate this.

Remember when SOC wrote that if Tom and Kirstie were to be the inheritors of Bridge Farm they had to be put through the mill first? Really tested and challenged to emerge with all the necessary qualities for the great responsibility ahead. Or something like that. This is exactly what’s happening to Freddie - he’s emerging from his cocoon, and it’s a painful process.

Self hatred is not a positive thing IMO, I suppose it's a bit selfish to blame oneself for everything that goes wrong but I don't think it's a good way to become responsible and reliable, it IS sometimes a teenage thing though.

Anyway what I thought about SOC doesn't bear repeating.. sadly this editor is not being very subtle either.

I do wish the new editors wouldn't keep bringing back people who either left Ambridge years ago and have never been missed and have absolutely no reason to want to come back to a place where they were disliked, like Robin Fairbrother and Doc Locke, or people who never spoke at all like Camilla. Nobody who had escaped would want to come back.

Dr Locke is easy on the eye, and I think Robin Fairbrother should be heard several times a week. Bring me the voice of Anthony Head.

The new editors seem to like having well known actors appearing on TA.
As long as it's Anthony Head that's fine by me. Still missing the real Tom Archer though.

Hellloooo! I've missed you all. Looking forward to a good catch up.

Sorry the bunting is a bit grubby. I had to use it as a pillow sometimes.

Bring me the voice of Anthony Head.
arf

R4- that is excellent!

I wouldn't mind more Anthony Head at least I could tell who he was! But he came as part of a parcel with a pair of waste-of-space soundalikes the village could really do without. And they sounded like all the other new young male actors who appeared in 2013-14, too: Tom Archer and Charlie Wossit and Dan Hebden Lloyd I couldn't tell t'other from which half the time.

I interpreted the Freddie/Billy thing the same way as grumiosmum. Freddie was frightened of coming to the attention of the violent inmates whom he'd managed to evade by making himself 'invisible' - staying in his room etc. I think we were being taught a lesson in surviving prison.

I also noticed Elizabeth being comforted by Russ. Tsk tsk tsk...

Yes I think Freddie was protecting himself, he didn't want to be seen to be associating with the really unpopular kid. I assume how we interpret it is linked to whether we like Freddie or not.

I think we are seeing the rehabilitation of Freddie post prison. All that gung-ho stuff when he first came out was a smokescreen, he's much more self aware, or at least trying to be. It's Pargeter whack-a-mole, though, just as he becomes more bearable Lily turns up the whinge factor.

No one has mentioned Clarrie’s visit to Will. Funny how he didn’t mention that he’d had a little help with the tidying up! Not unlike when Toby had paid Emma to clean Pip’s cottage.

I'm sorry, I really don't think that interpretation of what happened with Billy stacks up. Freddie says that he never got to know Billy and wishes now that he had - he initially thought it was a wind-up (perhaps he thought Billy was being coerced into sitting with Freddie as some kind of joke). He opened up to Billy, talked about Lily which he says he didn't do with anyone else, so it was the closest he got to a friendship. I don't read anything in that to show he resented Billy's attention or conversation.

birds - Why at that stage would Freddie have been worried about being seen associating with another unpopular kid? The bullies were ignoring him anyway - if it really were a concern for himself, he soon had that dispelled when Billy was the one beaten up for associating with Freddie.

After that, I think we can question Freddie's motives - he tried to push Billy away. Was that because he thought that he (Freddie) would be next for a beating or because he realised with horror that it would lead to more beatings for Billy? Clearly, he didn't anticipate that it would lead to such a terrible response from Billy.

I think Freddie was appalled that Billy had been beaten for talking to him, and was doing what he thought was right to protect Billly. That's why he is now twisted in knots about the impact that had on Billy.

It's fine for us to see things differently DDD, I wouldn't worry about it.

Of course it's fine! But worrying about it is one of the points of these threads, isn't it?

. I worry not one jot about Freddie because I don't like him. I think that's the explanation to the different interpretations. I will have to whisper this bit but I want him to go away forever.

There isn't a terrified emoji.

I really don't like Freddie either. He's a pseudo whiny, ignorant little twerp with all the personality and responsibility of a wet dishcloth.

David is starting to piss me off.
Kenton owes him money, yes, and I am on David's side. So stop your bloody moaning and instruct a solicitor to draw up a repayment plan.

I think the relationship between Kenton and Dave is quite clever: ime siblings know just how to press each other’s buttons and wind each other up in a way that doesn’t happen in any other relationship. I know I can fly off the handle with my own db very quickly because I feel like it’s always the same argument. (It’s not, but it’s always the same attitude and it irks me!)

DDDhear hear.

Freddie is realising that his behaviours are hurting other people who he cares about. He's having an epiphany. Or indeed, several. Freddie is a glorious character and extremely well acted.

I wish he would go and live with Shula, though, so we still hear from him.

I really don't like Freddie either. He's a pseudo whiny, ignorant little twerp with all the personality and responsibility of a wet dishcloth

I don't think he is devoid of personality but I agree with the rest - mainly he is massively entitled. I never understand why Freddie gets so much slack cut him even over drug dealing in dangerous drugs for profit because he is " the young, fatherless boy" whilst every mistake Lily makes is appalling behaviour from an "adult".

Its an interesting contrast in the expectations of young men and women.