Fast falls the eventide for Joe Grundy, the darkness deepens for Ed - will he be fenced in or is there still time for acts of pennants? Abide with us and discuss The Archers, thread #104!

[GabrielleNelson]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads and @DadDadDad for being our resident statistician and keeping the ball rolling when Pseudo stepped back a bit and more recently when someone forgot they had promised to start the next thread, ahem.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from this thread, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks also to LillianGish for the splendid thread title. As actor Edward Kelsey died last month, we have probably heard Joe Grundy for the last time, or will do very shortly. RIP Mr Kelsey; many thanks for creating a wonderfully vivid character, gnarly toenails and all.

As pointed out on the last thread, we're getting very close now to the 100th birthday of June Spencer, who plays Peggy Woolley. What an achievement! I hope the team manage to squeeze Peggy into that day's episode, come what may.

Don't go Freddie.

Who got the sympathy vote tonight - Will, Tom or Freddie?

Freddie by a mile.

Don't let him leave, SW.

What's the conditions of freddie's bail? Will he be in terrible for moving out?

BOOP for the freddie storyline the last week or two. Boopy boopy boop.

I'm also team David, Kenton's a right royal idiot for consistently avoiding him RE tge loan. He could have made sensible repayment arrangements ages ago but nooooo. Burries his head repeatedly in the sand and spends a fortune on other shite.

Why doesn’t Freddie just move in with Shula? Not a dramatic enough gesture for a teenager maybe?

I don't think he can move anywhere yet because of his bail/release conditions. I don't know how long for.

What's the conditions of freddie's bail? Will he be in terrible for moving out?

He isn't on bail. You are released on bail after being charged but before a trial. He has to meet with a probation officer but beyond that there are no restrictions on where he lives.

It’ll be the making of him!

But I hate the thought of Russ left as king of the castle.

Oh - Myimaginarycat - BOOP is the acronym of a former poster who pointed out (years ago!) that the thread was becoming too negative. So it’s used in praise of anything unusually ... erm ... praiseworthy.

I think he was released on licence, wasn’t he, so he just needs to get the new address approved www.prisonersfamilies.org/licence-conditions/

I agree that surely Shula is the most obvious answer to Freddie's accommodation problems, not least because he could also keep himself occupied in the stables which would presumably tick a box with his offender manager.

I think he said his offender manager wanted him to get a job that wasn't with one of his relations.

I thought Lily was tiresome tonight ( this morning where I am, in the future). Freddie's blaming himself for what happens to others may be a step in the redemptive direction required, but made more sense for him to go because of the need to save LL.

What pity he didn't tell Lily he was saving LL as his future.

I don’t understand why Freddie wasn’t upfront with Lily about the perilous state of LL finances unless the licence is restored. She must have some inkling anyway and so must Elizabeth. I don’t understand why Freddie has to go and stay with Camilla either - why not move back in with Shula? There is obviously some plot requirement for Freddie to be off the premises and well away from Ambridge - no doubt concerning CMR getting his feet under the table and deepening his relationship with Elizabeth neither of which can happen if Freddie’s around.

The not telling Lily is ridiculous.

Lily not working out how much money they are losing by not having a license is ridiculous.

Maybe they just fancy bringing Camilla in as a character. It does seem slightly odd we haven't heard about her for so long.

I wonder if they'll discover a Monet in the attic and restore the LB fortunes that way?

Why did Freddie think his prison friend was his fault? I missed that

I think it's Freddie's sitting next to him at meals that did it. In Freddie's opinion.

@Villanelle I think because he’d tried to get friendly with Freddie but then F shunned him.

Agree Lily was in awful sanctimonious state last night.

No, There was no shunning on Freddie’s part! The boy was warned away from associating with Freddie by other inmates - including being beaten up by them. So it would appear that for Billy, being forcibly separated from his only almost-friend pushed him into an actively suicidal state.

Obviously it wasn’t Freddie’s fault. But it’s easy to see how he might assign blame to himself.

It was interesting that, in naming the people who have been hurt through closeness to him, Freddie didn’t include Lily. I wonder if that’s because he doesn’t understand or won’t acknowledge just how much she has suffered and lost as a direct result of his dealing, conviction and being ‘away’.

George If the permanent state of hysteria that TA seems to be in at the moment is down the Editor then the quicker he or she goes the better, it's starting to get on my nerves now.

'to' the editor of course!

George - that's how I read the Billy story - somehow Freddie was ostracized by the other inmates and Billy was punished for even slightly associating with him.

I don't find it convincing that Freddie would be so shunned in prison. Sure, he would have been the "posh boy" misfit, but aren't there lots of misfits in such a place - wouldn't the tougher inmates have found some "use" for him, even if only for some unkind banter? For a start, some of them would have seen Lily, and I can imagine some of them saying "oi, Posh Boy, can you fix me up with a date with your sister? she is WELL fit!"

And I appreciate they would probably be a lot cruder than "fix me up with a date" but I'm not paid to write Archers dialogue, so that was the best I could do.

I don’t think Lily was sanctimonious! She was terrified - both of losing her twin again and of being left with the likely maternal fall-out if Freddie leaves LL.

It must be so galling for her. All the years of being the ‘good’ twin have been exposed as entirely dependent on Freddie being there, beside her, to be compared to. If he moves out all she’ll be left with is a distraught, panicked mother who is completely unable to ‘see’ her at all - who will need 100% of Lily’s support while she ignores her completely, obsessing about the absent heir.

No doubt Lily can already see a likelihood that if Freddie goes, her mother will be in no fit state to be left alone at LL. She can already see her return to university under threat.

I didn't get why David rejected with disgust the prospect of eating at the Bull because it would be putting money into Kenton's pocket. Surely it would make more sense to eat there and tell Kenton to knock the price off his debt.

I do sometimes wonder if the people calling Lily sanctimonious and so on have young adult children? She is only 19/and had faced so much really grown up stuff/ no wonder she panics sometimes. I think she’s presented really realistically- coping then losing it, brave then terrified.....