Fast falls the eventide for Joe Grundy, the darkness deepens for Ed - will he be fenced in or is there still time for acts of pennants? Abide with us and discuss The Archers, thread #104!

[GabrielleNelson]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads and @DadDadDad for being our resident statistician and keeping the ball rolling when Pseudo stepped back a bit and more recently when someone forgot they had promised to start the next thread, ahem.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from this thread, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks also to LillianGish for the splendid thread title. As actor Edward Kelsey died last month, we have probably heard Joe Grundy for the last time, or will do very shortly. RIP Mr Kelsey; many thanks for creating a wonderfully vivid character, gnarly toenails and all.

As pointed out on the last thread, we're getting very close now to the 100th birthday of June Spencer, who plays Peggy Woolley. What an achievement! I hope the team manage to squeeze Peggy into that day's episode, come what may.

I did find the Natasha episode weird, along with the nutty aunt episode... This week has been odd in archers land.

Although I've not heard Pip for ages, which kind of makes up for it!

I'd be up for a trip to Birmingham to the studios

@ErrolTheDragon and @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g the papers usually come on the plane so no worries unless it's really, really bad weather. Sunday paper- no. You can't have everything. Very few Guards, guards, guards either so there's that benefit 😉

@ppeatfruit it is paradise. There isn't anywhere better to live.

It's tempting to make some quip relating to the Wee Free Men at this point, but maybe I'd better not. Both the western isles and discworld are a long way from Ambridge.

that theory had occurred to me - Natasha was taken off the air while the actress's agent negotiated her a better package

Nah, I reckon she was filming for S4C.

Both the western isles and discworld are a long way from Ambridge.

Oh, I dunno. I reckon Terry would have made a great script writer. I think he certainly understood how small communities work.

I can’t decide which way the SWs are going with Natasha and Tom. Bipolar sounds totally feasible, with the highs, big spending, and lows and retreating.
to Cecile and agreement with other posters’ comments on your difficult situation.
If that is the direction, I wonder if Tom and his easily distracted nature will take longer to notice than the average bear?

Natasha also quietly said that their reunion ‘had to work...’ - plenty of room to speculate what that could mean...!

I don’t think Natasha apologised to Tom (did I miss it?) - she seemed to be scolding him about him being honest and communicative in future. There didn’t seem to be any ‘adult’ discussions from either of them about the situation.

So maybe it’s not so unexpected that Tony interfered, just like Jill with Kenton and David, and Clarrie and Bev with Will.
With so many Ambridge adults needing parental interventions, it does seem there’s more than a slightly embarrassing degree of arrested development. Unlike Freddie who seems to have developed after having been arrested.

On the sweary theme, did anyone notice Kristuffer signalling that Tracie had flipped him the bird? I think that’s what was intended when he yelled ‘unsportsmanlike’ to her after their exchange on the cricket pitch. Clever to give a visual on radio I’d love Tracie to adopt frod.
“Why the frod can’t you get a cleaner / childminder, Will?!” (Nation cheers)

And following on from the sound effect and studio tour comments, I have an enormously burning question. This is immature, I apologise, but does ANYONE know what radio actors do when there’s kissing?! Do they kiss each other (close to the microphone) like regular actors would? Or, because without being filmed there’s no need, do they awkwardly kiss their own hand instead? Does anyone know?!

And nice title-smithing, Gabrielle. I like the gentle gravitas it referred to in Joe. I think that’s going to be sorely missed when he passes. Eddie isn’t going to fill the void of kindly observational advice which only an older, wiser relative can offer.

Leonard sounds like he might have the knack but he’s teetering a bit on the edge of an outside perspective being valuable yet, being an outsider, he could be interfering. (Although I did vom a little bit when he and Jill were giggling over the rampant nepotism in Ambridge). I agree with a poster who reckoned he’s had a stint inside. Looking forward to learning more about him.

Sorry that my posts are like buses...

Do any legal eagles (and we know how many there are on here!) know how difficult it is to undo an entail? And would it even be unusual to undo one ‘in this day and age’?! The purpose of entailing was to prevent the estate being split, right? So that doesn’t mean it can’t be be inherited by a daughter / or other female relative now (now that a woman’s inheritance can remain her own and not automatically become the chattels of her husband upon marriage...)

(I appreciate the SWs are entirely like to make up any old nonsense! but I’m curious about what would happen in the (ahem) real world).

Alec, you're more advanced up there than the island where my parents live! They have no plane service and no airstrip. The sound of a helicopter is usually bad news because it means either the Mountain Rescue has been called out or someone needs an urgent transfer to a hospital on the mainland. The papers used to be brought over with the post by a man with a small boat. He was a lot more reliable than the ferry because his boat could dock in most weathers, and the ferry can't get into the port on the mainland when the wind's in the wrong direction. There's a new pier on the island now and unfortunately there are now also problems when the wind's in the wrong direction over there too. Why this wasn't thought of and addressed during the years of planning is not known.

Island life! I love it there, but not sure I could live there permanently. (I never did - my parents moved there on retirement. We have family there and they'd known the place all their lives. It's worked out very well for them, fortunately.)

Anyway, back to Ambridge. Lilian used to live on an island - was it Jersey or Guernsey? Not quite the same.

Kissing in TA appears to be of two types: a quick peck is indicated by a smacking lips sound (the late lamented Lillian, for example does that thing which I hate IRL - exaggerated 'mwah mwah' noises when meeting someone). A longer, romantic, kiss is usually indicated not with lip sounds but with ridiculous 'mmm' appreciative sounds that literally no one makes IRL. Therefore I conclude that in neither case does actual kissing, either of another person or of one's hand, take place.

Cecile, I'm not a relationships expert but (as I posted upthread) the Tom and Natasha scene was also very reminiscent of me and my ex-h, who has a MH illness (not bipolar). One of the professional people involved in the breakup process, who has obviously seen a lot more cases than me although is not a psychologist or similar, told me that it's quite common for someone to leave after being helped through a severe MH episode - as though they can't handle the fact that you've helped them through the low and seen them at their most vulnerable and raw, so at some point when they've 'recovered' (i.e. are on a high or similar) they leave to rebuild a life where they don't have to deal with you. That doesn't make it about you, but it means that if they don't want help from you you can't really force it.

I think for Tom and Natasha, it's not at all clear that the SW are going for a MH storyline, we'll have to wait and see. But if they are then Tom Archer will be very very slow on the uptake. It will be a long time until he notices anything of the sort. Mainly because he's Tom Archer, but not having much contact with her family and friends doesn't help.

ShulasCreamCardigan the radio-acting convention, I believe, is to smooch the back of your own hand. There have been a few passionate clinches, haven't there? although yes, possibly not too many recently.

What???? Lovely Len with the calming voice has been inside??? What theory did I miss?
I am convinced however that Leonard is a gentlemen art thief. His interest in the house, antiques, cash in the attic...

Good morning and thank you so much for all your kind replies! I remember you R4 and EBear . Fink the bit that is interesting for me there is that he actually left me at a particularly low point of mine and I’m in the process of completely turning my life around, and I have to say that doesn’t make me like him any less or want to be with him less - and he is probably not going out and addressing his issues unless he’s had a drastic and unsignalled personality change (maybe I should get in a SW to write one for me ). Anyway, we shall see what we shall see. I haven’t posted in relationships as I’m getting real life help and enough people in my real life (not the people who are helping, haha) are saying LTB :) just before I stop talking about myself, though, I’d like to say it’s not just about the good times with this person, as there were a lot of difficult times, trust me. It’s that this person had enough good qualities and the good times and his bad qualities were worth the bad times.

Sorry for taking up your time!

Regarding the entail, I’m sure that when I was learning Land Law we were told either that entails are being phased out (you can’t make new ones) or they have been turned into a slightly different land right. I learned land law a while ago so might have to check this out to put the issue to rest and satisfy my own curiosity!

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned before is the possibility that when Elizabeth dies, anyone who is dependant on LL might (and I mean might) be able to challenge the will on the basis of that? Again, I’m going to have to follow that up (I’m a privacy lawyer, not a family lawyer). I love it when a storyline raises legal interest points!

Re Kissing. From a Dum Tee Dum special podcast interview with the actress who plays Kirsty - it depends on the actors involved. I believe she and "old" Tom did back of hand kissing, which led to confusion with "new" Tom who expected lips kissing.

Nah, I reckon she was filming for S4C.

That's more than likely, and having very much enjoyed Hinterland and Keeping Faith (is there a 2nd series of that soon?) I rather hope so! I'd like to know if there's any other S4C goodies I've missed?

CeciledeVolanges the portrayal of Natasha resonates with me too.

I have never been happy with the way Natasha was being first dismissed and her own achievements rubbished, then blamed for all Tom's communication failures. But the speed of the wedding made me wonder if this is where they were going.

I shall be so unbelievably angry if they do "soap" bipolar. They don't have a good track record or portraying the more serious MH issues, too often pandering to stereotypes.

It would also mean that TA are trying to tackle depression, bipolar and autism at the same time. I know autism is not a mental health condition but I don't think TA have the skills to tackle these issues well. Let alone all at once.

I know autism is not a mental health condition but I don't think TA have the skills to tackle these issues well

I was quite angry when Bethany was conveniently shipped out of sight (again like autism not an MH condition). The magic health fairy "disappears" serious conditions in main characters and with secondary characters they seem to be shipped out of view.

So if Natasha is bipolar I assume she will get a magical cure or be shipped out with all the focus on "poor brave Tom" and the impact it has on him.

At which point I may actually stop listening.

Regarding the mental health portrayal, I agree 100%. I actually have a chapter in the latest Academic Archers Boon (sorry, blatant boasting and shameless plugging at the same time there) about this - how there is basically no portrayal of how people manage chronic, long-term mental health issues and that there are several feminist issues around the storylines we’ve had. If they do make it “about” bipolar yes, I will be very cross. There is also a tendency to point to people’s MH issues as if they explain everything or mean everything is inevitably going to be shitty in your life. I’m sick of it! Have just deleted a long rant in order not to waste more space but good to know I’m not alone in my views.

I don't think TA have the skills to tackle these issues well

I don't think they have the skills to tackle anything of substance. I hope in a way they stay away from another MH storyline rather than botch it. They do better when charting the minutiae of life in a fictional farming community instead of going all socially conscious. Look what happened to Emmerdale when they dropped the 'Farm'.

I'm finding the Tom N Tash storyline a bit difficult to get on board with. I still can't make out what character the SWs are trying to write for Natasha. I appreciate there is a story arc yet to be revealed but why does everyone, including Tony and Pat, suddenly seem to think they are meant for each other? Where have we seen an evidence of that? It's a bit lazy to have that transformation happen off script.

I'm very invested in the David/Kenton dynamic, but I'm a vintage listener from the days when Kenton was only a name and had yet to return to Ambridge, so my loyalty will always be with David, flawed though he is.

there is basically no portrayal of how people manage chronic, long-term mental health issues and that there are several feminist issues

I think its precisely that cross over which irritates me so much.

Perhaps we should run a book on whether Natasha will be rapidly disappeared or magically cured by Tom's pigs.

It all feels a bit pants at the mo. Peggy was out of character with the sacking. Freddie’s near miss move just gave us a cartoon baddy. The Natasha stuff is just off as are everyone’s reactions to it. Ed and his dad wouldn’t be quite as naive about the risks entailed in his current situation. Too few good women leads... too much inconsistency or oddity.

Peggy was out of character with the sacking.

I bet she's regretting THAT decision...