Fast falls the eventide for Joe Grundy, the darkness deepens for Ed - will he be fenced in or is there still time for acts of pennants? Abide with us and discuss The Archers, thread #104!

[GabrielleNelson]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads and @DadDadDad for being our resident statistician and keeping the ball rolling when Pseudo stepped back a bit and more recently when someone forgot they had promised to start the next thread, ahem.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from this thread, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks also to LillianGish for the splendid thread title. As actor Edward Kelsey died last month, we have probably heard Joe Grundy for the last time, or will do very shortly. RIP Mr Kelsey; many thanks for creating a wonderfully vivid character, gnarly toenails and all.

As pointed out on the last thread, we're getting very close now to the 100th birthday of June Spencer, who plays Peggy Woolley. What an achievement! I hope the team manage to squeeze Peggy into that day's episode, come what may.

And that was only 20 years ago. Surely Ambridge is not yet ready for another vicar having an affair again...

Thank you Ilovejudgejudy I said that too , it seems we are the 2 listeners who heard that soup dropping scene properly!!!!!

Gosh this thread is racing along (DDD are we moving faster than usual?) George your summary of Emma’s behaviour is spot on (I also liked your comment I’ll have to go again - re the studio tour. Any excuse ) AskingQuestions - you really ought to change your name to AnsweringQuestions. And finally, I almost can’t bear to listen to EdnEm losing their dream home - no Grundy can ever be allowed to rise above their station. I just hope Joe is not alive to see the day. The things is Ed knows what he is doing is wrong - he’s utterly crushed by the burden of it - I don’t know why he doesn’t confide in Emma. It’s going to be much worse for him in the long run when she finds out.

think it is , in reality, now unlikely LL would go to a cousin Pride and Prejudice style

Not sure about a P&P style entail but I remember this coming up when the children were small and definitely long before Nigel died. Lets face it, this is the standard inheritance model still for many large estates.

During the whole inheritance debacle there discussion back at LL about the children and how Freddy copped for the lot and Lily entitled to nothing - just as had happened with Nigel and Camilla. This came up when Julia was alive as well - snarky comments about Elizabeth never getting her hands on LL even if they were married. So on Nigel's death instead of going to Elizabeth for her lifetime it all went straight to Freddy in trust.

I can't ever remember a time where this wasn't apparent in the scriptwriting. There were even mentions of it when Brian/Jennifer were carving up Home Farm with reference to them (or Brian) being free to split as they wished. I can't be the only one who remembers this surely?

Hang on, ppeatfruit - I knew that about the polka dot shoes remark too, I didn't realise there was any question of anything else I had thought we'd moved on and everyone else had understood it that way too, until I saw that last comment by judgejudy.

We did have a phase, a few years back, when Em was put in charge of the relationship and took the serious / moral decisions. The current editor seems to have rowed back from that, which is a shame.

Caffeine, agreed about the LL entail having been in the background as fact and understood, all along. Don't remember the Brian and Jennifer mentions, though.

I accept all that but am also absolutely certain I heard Elizabeth saying that Lily would be inheriting money. But apparently no one else heard it. So I’m always a little puzzled when people suggest the poor girl will be turfed out in her slippers to live under a bridge with Mia Ned. (Can’t credit, don’t recall who coined.)

on't remember the Brian and Jennifer mentions, though

It wasn't a plot aspect, more a general conversation over the breakfast table. Something about the way Adam/Debbie would take the main part of the farm and the Kate/Alice would have "packages" made up of a cottage each and some shares/cash benefits, and that they were at least able to split the estate as they chose and not have to follow the rules of some antiquated predecessor.

I have no idea why this sticks in my memory.

Disappointingly, it never takes very much at all for Emmur's bitter, vindictive side, nor that peculiarly spiteful tone of voice she has, to bubble to the surface.

She has her mother's gossipy nature with an extra-unpleasant edge of vindictiveness which I think is lacking in Susan (who, while highly irritating, is good at heart).

I heard Elizabeth saying that Lily would be inheriting money

I would assume some cash would be found to settle on Lily (just as she was given the Gwen John). It was more the fact that she wouldn't be entitled to anything which in this day and age still happens. The landed property goes to the son, the daughter gets a comparatively trivial cash settlement.

Possibly I remember it because Julia's treatment of Elizabeth was vile and the line of "you will never been entitled to anything" was trotted out mroe than once.

If Nigel's will did not apportion some cash/income for Lily would the trustees be able to overwrite the ential/inheritance rules or however its set up and hand over cash to Lily? There has never been any mention of any money in trust for Lily, just the Gwen John.

I think (and I’ve already posted on this so forgive me for repeating) that one of the effects and possibly intentions of Camilla’s appearance was to remind us just what Lily’s rights are in the LL inheritance. She might have her feet under the table and be running the show at the moment, but once Freddie marries she could easily be out on her ear and years down the line find herself being given a tour the manner of a paying visitor. It illustrated how unfair the terms of the entail are - though I fully accept that’s the price of keeping the estate together. Camilla sounded like a horror, but we really don’t know if she’s always been like that (never heard and rarely mentioned previously) or if her bitterness has grown as a result of the unfairness of it all. Ironic really that Elizabeth was complaining about a similar unfairness at Brookfield while benefiting through marriage from exactly the same thing at LL.

Emma was shrewishly unpleasant tonight

I think if I were:

• holding down three jobs
• including one as a nightshift chicken gizzard puller,
• looking after two kids and a Grundy male
• helping to look after Will's child and home
• and still having to live with the in laws in my late 30s
• knowing said inlaws have to move leaving me homeless in the forseeable future

then I'd probably get a touch of the shrews if my one spark of escape to the affordable housing looked to be at risk.

Of course the SW could still find ways to be mean to Emma, in a "be careful what you wish for" way. They get the house but are then forever fretting about scraping together the money for the mortgage/council tax/utilities. And, in years to come, their DC will be scathing about the tiny house and ask why they haven't got a bigger home like their cousins. How sharper than a serpent's tooth, and all that.

Mia Ned was mine, to explain why Mere is merely Mere and not Mia.
It is confusing enough having Aunty Cardboard and Kristiffur both called Chris.

Not to mention the references to Gill, who of course is Jill, not to be confused with Adele the ferret, and the Gills.

Or the references to Roy living at Willow Cottage. My head is spinning with the thought of Rotaboy and JD's love nest, with Brine and Krusty next door.

ppeatfruit, as Dumdedumdedum
I think we nearly all understood where the polka dot shoes came from, there wasn't any confusion (except maybe from one or two posters who hadn't actually heard the episode).

The Gills!! What of them? Not a peep....

The thing about Emma is that yes, she has an undeniably hard life. Yes, she has good reason to be envious, bitter and snappy. But at heart she just isn't a very nice person. It isn't her default to be one of life's shining, positive types.

Compare and contrast with Nic, who was one of those types.....despite also having had a pretty hard life (and being actually married to the awful Will/procreating with him ).

On DumTeeDum somebody suggested a link beteeen the Gills, Tim’s dodgy jobs and the bunting- all about drugs and county lines and Breaking Bad...

The Gills were namechecked relatively recently by Susan, just to acknowledge that they are actually there. She said something about them not supporting the village shop or joining in with community life, IIRC it was while speaking to and in contrast with some other newcomer who had tried their best to fit in - probably Natasha.

Went to a play last night. All a little dull. Thought "ooh I know that voice" - riffled through mental filing cabinets "actors, voices, unfiled" and arrived at Rauri. Cheered me up no end.

Apparently they record four episodes? Instalments? at a time.

Bucking I think I heard the actor who plays Freddie On 4Ex, yesterday, presenting a travelogue or something.

So Dum you was all taking the pee? Oooh [blush) Sometimes it's difficult to 'get it' on line. That's my excuse for being dense.

I totally got the reference to soup-spattering ref polka-dot shoes.

Wasn't aware there was more than one interpretation?