The Archers - Freddie is getting OUT: will Russ hop it? Helen is falling DOWN: is Lee still in the frame? Tom is heading UP: will Natasha be the boost his sausage needs? (Thread no. 101

[DadDadDad]

We're still here and still discussing TA (The Archers). We welcome newcomers and old hands, so if you have a question or a point of view, please dive in. No spoilers - if you've seen info on future storylines, there's a separate Radio Addicts thread for that.

I loved all the name changes on the last thread. Don't forget to change back! (If you want to).

Who's going to get Russ out of LL? Freddie? Lily? Elizabeth? Or is it Freddie who will head off?

Yeah, Jill. Who cares about your feelings? Certainly not Toby with that ridiculous coughing fit. What an arse that man is.

“Fck me jill has jealousy ishoos.“
Yes she does- and she has said she does. She felt compared to Grace by Phil and his family all through her marriage.

I seem to remember someone on the radio talking about the earlier days of TA. At the beginning it had the aim of educating post-war farmers. Phil, the young farmer, needed to prove his worth to Grace and her posh family. He did this by developing pig farming at Hollowtree. Thus a good part of the nation found themselves unexpectedly interested in pigs and their management, because Phil needed success to have a chance with Grace.

I sort of get the Grace jealousy thing, but agree it’s bonkers.
My mum is still jealous of my late dad’s ex girlfriend whom he dated for 18 months back In the early 50s before my folks met and married, and went on to have me and my siblings and celebrate over 50 years of marriage together before my dad died.

I really don't recall any jealousy from Jill, until very recently. And I've been listening for quite a few years. Unless it somehow went over my head? - when I started paying attention to the programme in my teens, I don't think I even knew Grace had "existed."

To give you an idea of how long, I remember Lillian getting a pony for one of her teenage birthdays, and also the baker, Doughy Hood. I have just googled Doughy Hood, and found to my surprise that he was played by Arnold Ridley.

Same here, Pusscat. I started listening late 70s and remember no Grace-angst then. It's only been invented raised its head in the last decade or so.
It's silly. Stop it!

Nah mate ... It’s not quite a decade since Phil died and I’m sure I remember () a conversation between Phil and Jill about how she’d always felt second best to Grace long before he died. There was a sort of Suez crisis holding of breath before his answer ...

(Think we’ve also had this conversation before on the thread - though I don’t remember how it concluded ...)

But there’s this too from the BBC blog about the Elizabeth/Robin era - (second part, after photos) which was definitely more than ten years ago.

I wonder what “look” it was that Chris gave Jill and Leonard.

SilveryPussycat that is a long time! Was teenage Lilian like current Lilian?

when I started paying attention to the programme in my teens, I don't think I even knew Grace had "existed." This - I’ve been consciously listening since about 1980. The idea that Jill had felt overshadowed by Grace for all her married life is just nonsense. It only really seems to have become a thing since Phil died. Her dislike and ambivalence towards the Fairbrethren is much better explained the behaviour of their father Robin, but the whole Grace hate thing with it’s feeble plot lines like the memorial window and now the damp squib christening feels very contrived.

I agree with George. There was definitely something before Phil died. I can't remember when the memorial window was put in the church but that was Phil's idea (or something he went along with if it was the Fairbrothers' idea) and Jill was very put out but in her characteristic passive aggressive way didn't say so.

(I'm very fond of Jill in spite of a lot of her distinctive characteristics and it's undoubtedly because she resembles my mum in many of them. PA reactions, inability to say out loud 'You've upset me/I don't like that', while making it perfectly obvious by facial expression, tone of voice, body language, deep indrawn breaths, inability to let the subject go for decades, is one of them. )

PS AskingQuestions is right, Grace wasn't pregnant when she died, just keen to TTC. I checked my Archers books and neither of them mentions Jill's jealousy of Grace, although one of them mentions that Phil never forgot Grace and always remembered their anniversary. So it looks like a 21st century back invention.

I assume the Chris who gave Jill a look was Barford and not Carter?

I don’t know her surname but I assumed it was Chris who moved from Peggy’s to the sheltered housing.

Why would auntie Chris give Jill “a look”? Have they fallen out?

Why would auntie Chris give Jill “a look”?
Who was Chris's brother ...

Oh, so the look was because of Leonard?? Blimey.....

We don’t know what the look was. Could have been surprise, or shock, or disgust or admiration ...

I was confused by the Auntie Chris look too. I thought maybe a sympathetic one because she knew what Jill felt about Grace?

We don’t know what the look was.
Chris is no longer in the village so she may be out of the loop as far as gossip is concerned. Jill spoke to Peggy about Leonard but I don't think she has spoken to Chris.

I think the look from Auntie Chris was one of disapproval, because Jill should not be stepping out with Leonard at her age. Or maybe brought him to the christening.

I never took Auntie Chris as a bitter old bag. And she’s blunt to know about Leonard, half the village goes to visit her in the Laurels, Leonard’s relationship with Jill is not a secret and Chis will know him from volunteering there, it would be top of the chat agenda (plus she’s in a flat there now so presumably gets out and about these days). Unless she fancied him for herself?

Bound, not blunt.

Of course we only have Jill's version of events. It may not have been a 'look' at all. It could have been something as innocuous as old woman, with failing sight, squinting as she was trying to get a better focus.

Chris knows about Leonard and his escorterly ways.

I don’t know who Chris’ brother was, I always struggle to remember the connections between the various families!

Jill at least perceived it as disapproving or similar as she listed it as one of the things that had spiked the day.