The Archers - Freddie is getting OUT: will Russ hop it? Helen is falling DOWN: is Lee still in the frame? Tom is heading UP: will Natasha be the boost his sausage needs? (Thread no. 101

[DadDadDad]

We're still here and still discussing TA (The Archers). We welcome newcomers and old hands, so if you have a question or a point of view, please dive in. No spoilers - if you've seen info on future storylines, there's a separate Radio Addicts thread for that.

I loved all the name changes on the last thread. Don't forget to change back! (If you want to).

Who's going to get Russ out of LL? Freddie? Lily? Elizabeth? Or is it Freddie who will head off?

And, oh, god, how old is Jakob? is she going to set her cap at him, now?

Can you IMAGINE if Shula came on Mumsnet and said her ex FIL had said that to her???

Well...trying to coax and badger your ex-FIL, whom you know to be hurt on his son's behalf, and an atheist to boot, into being supportive and interested in your church project, so that you can feel that 'things are better between us, aren't they?" might conceivably draw some caustic remarks from Mumsnet. Shula does rather seem to enjoy the bits of the religious life that enhance her local status - preaching, art projects, snuggling up with the minister - and prefers to leave aside the boring, ethical bits. You know, not lying to the police, not divorcing her husband because of boredom. She's churchy, more than religious, as a biographer of Christina Rossetti remarked of her subject. It's unattractive.

I’m most impressed with the Temple Grandin references. Have you seen the bbc programme about her? Very old but still on iPlayer.

I thought Jim was rude and fairly boring. I have no faith but hearing the imaginary friend stuff must be very tedious. If not being related anymore means sharing home truths perhaps Shula should tell him he was a crap father.
I promise I am not shula

I did see it a while ago Taswama. Might look it up again.

And yes, Smugula really deserved that! I still remember her extending her christian charity to HWMNBN and dong nothing but badger and harangue the man until he took refuge in the Grundy caravan. They were a lot more christian than Smugs when it came to helping people.

doing, not dong!

I promise I am not shula - yes, but, Shula birds, we all know what you like at keeping promises.

That Rosetti quote puts its finger on it: she practises Churchianity; she's pleased that two atheistic parents are going to stand up and pretend that they will fight for Christ and raise their daughter in faith, as if Rosie will catch a little bit of Christianity.

I rather liked the fade when Jim was about to tell Shula what she was, and called "Whited sepulchre!!" at the computer. The handling of two different sides of opinion about Shula's Christianity was done quite well.

I think I find the view of Christian people as hypocritical if they do something wrong ( and I don't think leaving your husband if you don't love him is wrong) is weird. The church in my village has just been through a fairly public scandal and as far as I am aware everyone views those involved with compassion.

I think there's a bit more to hypocrisy that that. After all, a fundamental part of being a Christian is recognising that you are sinner and have indeed failed to keep up the standards of behaviour that God asks of you - that in itself is not hypocrisy.

Hypocrisy surely comes when you tell others how to behave but fail to behave that way yourself (and refuse to admit that you are in the wrong). I suppose the perception of a lack of humility on Shula's part makes her seem hypocritical to Jim.

I thought a while ago that Freddy could get involved with the stables and take on Shula's reign (pun certainly intended) when she retires or gets herself to a nunnery. It seems to be something he genuinely enjoys. Does Felpersham Uni do equine studies? He could find himself a nice gel, although not one so nice that she objects to his prison background.

We can do an interesting compare&contrast between the sisters and their 'counsellors'.
Jim, coming from Higher Education, is used to a more combative stance where he tests his adversary's hypothesis.
CMR, coming from Secondary Education, is used to a softer approach where you employ that oh-so-reasonable-and-understanding, doing-it-by-the-book, neutral voice (which usually sends me into a rage , it's so detached and impersonal!)

Jim may have a point but he went about it in an unnecessarily rude way.
Shula seemed more worried about the judgement of the village than of the judgement of god.

Does Felpersham Uni do equine studies?

You know those amazing expanding houses all over Ambridge ...? Pretty certain Felpersham Uni is blessed with similar talents.

I think Jim had been holding that back for a long time, and relished the opportunity to let it all out!

I think I find the view of Christian people as hypocritical if they do something wrong ( and I don't think leaving your husband if you don't love him is wrong) is weird.

I don't think this is an issue about doing "something wrong". I think that the hypocrisy lies in deciding, when it's convenient/you're bored, to ignore a promise that you have made to the supreme being that you worship and that is absolutely central to your religion. For Jim, it must also stick in the throat that Shula actually preaches sermons to guide other Christians.

BOOP for Jim last night - Shula really has no idea does she? She wants to continue her tedious wittering to Jim about her church art project as if nothing has changed. I thought his comment about “One of the benefits of no longer being related to you..” was right on the nail. The hypocrisy jibe really hit home - good for Shula to know what other people are too polite to say. She should read some of these threads She’s busily engrossing herself in the church to the extent that some on here were wondering if she was thinking of taking holy orders herself, but is happy to put all that aside when it suits her. Her good turns are very much about making herself feel better about herself (HWMNBN is an example of that), but she’ll happily lie to the police as with the hunt sab incident (am I remembering this wrong, but wasn’t Jim in some way involved in that which resulted in Knob making threats to him out of earshot of others at a gathering or am I conflating two incidents?) I also find Jim’s unswerving loyalty to his son rather touching - he hasn’t always been the most touchy-feely father in the past, but he still there for him and has his back.

You make the marriage vows before, not to, the supreme being.

So hang on- are people saying that because Shula is a Christian she should have stayed in a marriage that was making her unhappy?

Is the Freddie actor the same as pre-prison? He sounds less distinctive to me

The thing is Bert I don't think she was unhappy - just bored. And she's still bored now - which should tell her something. I'm now waiting for her to bond with Jakob over horses and church organ playing which would be the final insult for Alistair. I don't think being a Christian obliged her to stay in her marriage, but I think that Jim's quite right - she shouldn't be preaching to anyone.

So hang on- are people saying that because Shula is a Christian she should have stayed in a marriage that was making her unhappy? She broke her promise without a compelling reason, and without making any real efforts to save the marriage. It's her choice, but I don't think I can view her as a committed Christian if she can so easily break a promise made before God.

I agree with Lillian and Mere. She didn't have a solid reason for divorcing Alistair, and she didn't talk to him about being unhappy. The first thing couples are advised when going through a rough patch, is to talk to each other, but she just hit him with the bombshell, when she'd made up her mind.

And she's still feeling unfulfilled, proving that it wasn't anything he had or hadn't done at all, it's something innate in her, so she's still unhappy. It wasn't the marriage she was unhappy about, but herself.

I don't think anyone should have said to Shula you must stay married because that is the promise you made before God. But fellow Christians should be willing to counsel someone on what the Bible has to say about the serious commitment of marriage and reasons for divorce, and stand with them in love as they try to decide what in good conscience is the right path.

To be fair to Shula I assume she did wrestle with her conscience, it's just it's not that obvious to the wider world: she gives the perception of preaching (literally!) one way and behaving another, and there's certainly little evidence of humility for her part in failing to keep her marriage going.

Hmm. So if Alasdair has walked that would be fine? Because he made the same vows but didn’t believe them?