Thread 99 (yes, 99!): Join us for spirited discussions of The Archers and its Top Blokes, whether you're Team Elizabeth (low spirits), Team Kate (Spiritual Home) or Team Toby (spirits =gin)

[Bittermints]

Thanks due to @PseudoBadger for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads and to @DadDadDad for being our resident statistician and keeping the ball rolling when Pseudo stepped back a bit. Thanks also to all those who contributed to the thread title.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other odd unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

So, to business. What a fantastic two-hander. Massive BOOP points to Alison Dowling, the scriptwriter and director (and the therapist). I had more than a small tear in my eye listening to that.

I'm another one with a vote of thanks to chemenger for all that information on the last thread about distilling. I should know some of that because I went on a tour of the whisky distillery near where my parents live but I've forgotten most of it except how delicious the end product is.

I thought Jill's reaction to Elizabeth's depression was quite realistic for someone of her generation who has never really been depressed herself - she tried to draw a parallel to try and get her head round it, but I don't think she really gets it. She's asking about therapy because she doesn't really know what's involved and it's going to take more than a few casseroles and a fruit cake fix. Jill's coming the end of her own life - a life of putting everyone else first - Peggy's just encouraged her to go for it with Leonard and just as she's come round to the idea that it might be ok to do just that Elizabeth drops her bombshell and she realises she should never have taken her eye of the ball. Leonard has performed the same function as Russ did for Lily - diverting Jill's attention away from Elizabeth while she was having her breakdown.

I've just looked back and apparently the climax (sorry) of the aftermath of the affair between Paul and Lilian was played out on Ambridge Extra ONLY, although it had been a key storyline on "The Archers" too. Whoever mentioned the tie up between that plot and Brenda and the Russians was quite right - what a phenomenal memory you have!

If anyone's interested, I found the Ambridge Extra stuff here: ponderingthearchers.blogspot.com/search/label/ambridge%20extra and of course, checked the Lowfield summaries for 2012 and 2013 for the Lilian and Paul Love Story www.lowfield.co.uk/archers/monthly.phtml?201306.

And that's just the excuse I needed to bring you this:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/1740045-Why-is-Lillian-allowing-this-to-happen

Thread No 1. Read it and weep tears of nostalgia for those days of youth and innocence.

And that's my cue to remind you of this current discussion of how to mark our approaching century of threads.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3510091-ONE-HUNDRED-NOT-OUT-come-here-to-mark-The-Archers-threads-a-MN-phenomenon

I didn’t hear anything about B&R and Kenton’s phone I heard it but couldn't tell who was speaking.

I did my O Levels in 1971. At my school (posh Grammar) there was a distinct divide between Arts and Sciences and I gave up all sciences after the 3rd Year (Year 9 for you youngsters).

I didn't understand all that stuff between Ben (and Ruari) and Call-Me-Russ last night. At Christmas wasn't it Josh doing all the Mr Jones business? Why would Ben just copy his brother, he doesn't in anything else?!

I could more easily believe the two young ones being in the Bull, even with no chance of getting served alcohol, than Russ and Lily. B&R have got no transport to get anywhere else so will presumably take whatever small entertainment they can get. Apart from Ben, Russ doesn't get on with Kenton, and the run in with someone disgruntled from college was almost inevitable (though satisfying nonetheless); why he would choose to hang out there rather than drive somewhere bigger is baffling.

[Jill's] asking about therapy because she doesn't really know what's involved and it's going to take more than a few casseroles and a fruit cake fix.
A compare&contrast, I suppose. Jill had just had a good old chin-wag with someone outside immediate family (Peggy) to get an impartial view but can't see that it might be useful for Lizzie to do the same.

Jill's coming the end of her own life - a life of putting everyone else first - Peggy's just encouraged her to go for it with Leonard and just as she's come round to the idea that it might be ok to do just that Elizabeth drops her bombshell and she realises she should never have taken her eye of the ball.
That's phooey, though. A false dichotomy. Also, Jill managed to totally miss what was going on with Shula and she didn't have the Leonard excuse then.

Part of why Jill misses things is because they go out of their way to hide them from her!

Perhaps Jill has been thinking about herself for the first time for years - slowly exploring what it's like / how will the family respond, to so and be what she wants. And that would make sense that she's arrived at Lizzies in that frame of mind.

I means kill has started thinking about herself - not at a superficial level but quite a profound, unconscious "shifting of the internal plates" (tectonics) way. Almost in the way that Lizzie needs to do, too.

And whoever it was who said earlier that Lily is a silly girl - I throw down my glove at you. Outside, 20 minutes.

To so and be?*

To her being

Kill * Jill

I like Lily too. She is hard working and before Russ had a clear plan for uni etc. She will ditch Russ soon and take over LL, not sure where Freddie will be in my grand plan! At a very young age Lily was manipulated by an older man in a position of power, it will be very hard for her to admit it is now awful.

I find Lily insufferable.

She was a snooty, stuck up little madam before - now she is stupidly still defending Russ. She has wasted presumably a considerable amount of money in paying tuition fees, kitting out the flat and the deposit for the flat.

Russ is a cocklodger, with dubious morals. I hope Lily kicks him out soon. She sounds like she's starting to realise what a dick he is, but isn't quite ready to swallow her pride and admit that everyone who warned her about him, was right.

And whoever it was who said earlier that Lily is a silly girl - I throw down my glove at you. Outside, 20 minutes

Me - she is my least favourite character by a long way. And don't forget she could have told her mother about the drugs but she kept quiet because of Russ. Which was really stupid anyway given she was always going to reveal the love of her life sooner rather than later.

I really like Lily! She has those convincing characteristics of the young; naieve and daft as a brush and thinks she knows it all, while at the same time being quite focused and competent and kind when she needs to be!

That's a good point about the drugs though MP. She should have told.

Bloody hell you’d think Elizabeth has been diagnosed with terminal cancer, not depression. I can’t get my head around how anyone is surprised about ‘the diagnosis’ given everything she has going on! You’d think that with 1 in 4 people having a mental health difficulty every year, this would be less of a shock!

Is there some significance in Derek Fletcher choosing Brexit Day (maybe) for his bash at The Bull?

I'm Team Lily, on the whole. I think she's entitled to a lot of kudos for being prepared to get her head down and help her mother, and I like her sheer competence when it comes to running LA: storylines where people are making a wholly unnecessary mess of things just make me uncomfortable. So far as Russ is concerned, she's obviously at that stage where she doesn't want to admit to herself what a pillock he is because that means admitting she was badly in the wrong and that she might have some responsibility for the Freddie situation as a result. Ben and Ruari winding her up is absolutely the wrong approach because it makes her defensive: what she needs is a sympathetic ear. Come back Phoebe!

Lily also lied through her teeth to her mother about her imaginary lesbian girlfriend and didn't she rope Phoebe into going along with that?

Russ knew what he was doing was wrong but so did Lily. She isn't a child. She must know the rules about student /teacher relationship. She knew Russ was married. If she really believed all that nonsense about his wife she isn't half as bright as she's supposed to be. I think the affair just suited her vanity.

I think she's entitled to a lot of kudos for being prepared to get her head down and help her mother

She doesn't have any choice. She's run through all her (or her mother's )money and is broke and homeless. That is why she is back and she has lied to her mother about that too. She wittered on about a gap year- the real reason is she can't afford to be in Manchester.

I feel for Lily. I found her insufferable when she was dishing out relationship advice, but that was then.

I think Nigel set things up extraordinarily badly by having Freddie as the heir of LL (I can imagine the scritwriters of the day gleefully planting that bomb).

And I think Lizzy has always indulged Freddie more because she is desperate for him to match up to the enormous expectations of being the future owner. Remember when he got a pony and Lily got to go on her school trip to Paris?

Meanwhile Lily has worked away doing really well and trying to hold it all together, and not getting much back. I'm not surprised she fell for an older, manipulative man, who paid attention to her. I can see her getting stuck at LL for the rest of her life, keeping it going so as not to disappoint her mother.

It is not Lilys job to enforce the rules about teacher pupil relationships, that was down to Russ.

Is there really no money for Lily or has she just not asked?

I can’t get my head around how anyone is surprised about ‘the diagnosis’ given everything she has going on! I completely agree with this. I think Jill was shocked she had missed it as much as anything, but as a pp said that’s because everyone goes out of the way to hide stuff from her. I think she is wondering why Elizabeth didn’t confide in her which is why she is wondering if she might have contributed in some way. I think people of Jill’s age tend to to be less understanding of stress in general - a sort of what have this generation to be stressed about attitude (not for one minute saying I share this view) - but in Elizabeth’s case it’s not difficult to find concrete reasons.
I’m not sure where I stand on Lily - Lily “the sensible one” would have told her mother Freddie was dealing drugs, the problem would have been nipped in the bud and the story would never have unfolded. The SW had to find a reason for her to keep quiet and came up with Russ - which might have worked for me if he had not been such an obvious arse from the start. I suppose I can just about accept she might have been looking for a father figure, but he does not fall into that category or that she was being expected to be older than her years (watch out Mia!), but would someone as otherwise switched on as Lily have fallen for such an obvious twat with his food intolerances and three-speed kettles?