Thread 99 (yes, 99!): Join us for spirited discussions of The Archers and its Top Blokes, whether you're Team Elizabeth (low spirits), Team Kate (Spiritual Home) or Team Toby (spirits =gin)

[Bittermints]

Thanks due to @PseudoBadger for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads and to @DadDadDad for being our resident statistician and keeping the ball rolling when Pseudo stepped back a bit. Thanks also to all those who contributed to the thread title.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other odd unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

So, to business. What a fantastic two-hander. Massive BOOP points to Alison Dowling, the scriptwriter and director (and the therapist). I had more than a small tear in my eye listening to that.

I'm another one with a vote of thanks to chemenger for all that information on the last thread about distilling. I should know some of that because I went on a tour of the whisky distillery near where my parents live but I've forgotten most of it except how delicious the end product is.

I think Lily is highly competent. I don't think this is the same thing as being sensible. Without Russ pulling her off track she'd have been fine at Manchester, just as she did well at school and can step in at LL. A 'sensible' Lily would have stuck to the halls plan and let Russ sort himself out.

“Is there really no money for Lily or has she just not asked?“

Her mum gave her money at Christmas- that’s why she told Russ she wouldn’t ask again and he suggested her trying other people.

Yes exactly ADark also Lilian You're forgetting the lure of illicit sex (with an older man AND a married deputy Head of her college) to a teenager who hadn't rebelled before.

Thank you for the new thread bitter and all!

I liked Lily actually saying to Lizzie that she had been right about the hasty move to Manchester and not mentioning that they'd been 'asked to leave' the flat. Oh dear Lizzie would blame herself for that too ! I bet stupid Russ will drop the news accidentally.

It would serve him right to have to go an live in one of the yurts! Sorry if I'm repeating someone I haven't read much of the thread.

I hope Liliy gives Russ an ultimatumm to get a job, work at LL scrubbing pans or mucking out the rare breeds, or leave.

Russ and Kate? (not envy)

Kill * Jill

Harsh, I feel, buckingfrolics.

Freddie must be back soon. Am I right in thinking, or am I just assuming, that Nigel had no choice about leaving LL to Freddie because of the terms of the trust? I don't know much about trusts but think of it in a hazy way as being a bit like the entail in P&P which Mr Bennett was going to break in a way I never understood when his son was born.

I think you are right about the entail but - and this is a personal opinion not a legal one - I wonder if that could have been changed if the trustees had agreed to it and if they had really tried.

I've got a feeling the Lower Loxley entail is such that it is only passed on through male descendants and would have gone out of Nigel's immediate family if he had only had daughters. I'm not sure if his sister Camilla has a son?

I think she's entitled to a lot of kudos for being prepared to get her head down and help her mother

She doesn't have any choice. She's run through all her (or her mother's )money and is broke and homeless.

But she did have a choice when Elizabeth had flu.

And being broke and homeless doesn't automatically lead to adult children getting their heads down and being useful. Witness Kate, for one.

I was taken aback when Jill asked what Lizzie had been talking about in therapy. I would have thought she would know that it's private to Lizzie and the therapist.

Can we expect Kill Jill 2 at some point on these threads?

But she did have a choice when Elizabeth had flu

Yes, mostly over the Christmas holidays and she then went back.

And being broke and homeless doesn't automatically lead to adult children getting their heads down and being useful. Witness Kate, for one

Not sure what your point is. Lily has brought this on herself. She has come back because she has no choice and it will then be a necessity turned into a virtue. "Oh it's so good of Lily to defer a year to help her mother"

If things had gone well with Russ she would still be there.

I liked Lily actually saying to Lizzie that she had been right about the hasty move to Manchester and not mentioning that they'd been 'asked to leave' the flat

It's a lie though. She has blown all her money, lost the deposit on the flat, wasted a years tuition fees yet it will all be turned into that she came back to help her mother.
She is deceitful spoilt brat.

Only because Jill wanted to blame herself for the problems, TheSilvery like Lizzie does.

What is the situation with Debbie in Hungary? Am I right in thinking that Brian and / or Home Farm has a financial interest in Debbie's farm? What will be the impact of Brexit?

I think that Russ is much more to blame for the Mancs. mess. He should've got a paid job to help pay the rent, he must 've known that it was going into arrears.

Speaking as the mother of an adult dayghter with depression, the temptation to ask her what happens in therapy is very hard to resist- largely because I want reassurance that it is not my fault. I do resist though. And it is incredibly easy to make it about me (I don’t!) because -again- I want to know if I did it to her.

Bertrand in similar shoes here. I try to assure myself that the therapy will help my adult child to address issues with me if they need to, when they are ready, and try to indicate that I'm listening. But it's very hard.

I have been reading quite a few science articles about depression possibly being yet another result of inflammation in the body.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/09/08/depression-physical-illness-could-treated-anti-inflammatory/amp/

It is not Lilys job to enforce the rules about teacher pupil relationships, that was down to Russ

Yes but she still knew it was wrong and Lily could have avoided starting an affair with a married man. I'll add vain to deceitful and spoilt. I think getting his attentions suited her vanity.

Sorry pushed send too soon. I became interested in this when I noticed that the people in my family who suffer from severe depression had had bad viruses and/or things like rheumatoid arthritis before they went on to get serious depression.

for bert and adark

I'm finding being a mum to a fairly anxious teen DD quite tricky but your situation must be so difficult.

BTW I very much enjoyed that trip down memory lane upthread. I was the second poster on the first thread and still lurk more than I post. I can't tell you how much I've loved being a part of these threads over the years.

That first thread was a doozy wasn't it? Lil and Paul then Paul's dedding. Moaning about endless Flower & Produce chat. Adam and Pawel. Pip pissing everyone off - ha! 'So fresh' on Ambridge Extra. And the arrival of Rob. Some great comments on him - 'there's something fishy about Rob', 'ooh bit of chemistry between Adam and Rob' 'what's the story with Mrs Rob?' 'imagine if Hellin gets pregnant' and so on. I particularly liked the suggestion that because he must be involved in artificial insemination at the mega dairy he'd be fine with Henry's conception

To be clear, I was referring to Elizabeth’s flu episode.

But she did have a choice when Elizabeth had flu

Yes, mostly over the Christmas holidays and she then went back.

No. She came back mid November for a few days and stayed on to to help. She was then due to go back early in December but changed her mind at the last minute.

It was fun wasn't it MrsAS? (I crashed into it about halfway through, absolutely delighted to have other addicts to share TA with.)

Particularly loved the introduction to the incoming editor - SOC. And the speculation about Rob.

Parents with children with difficulties, it really isn't your fault. So much of parenting (and everything else for that matter) is unconscious and based on your own early experience of relationships. Yes it has an impact but not one you could have changed just like that. Plus so many other variables are involved.

Often the characteristics that land people in therapy have positive aspects as well, and may serve them well until they hit a particular situation or stage in life.