Thread 98 - Discuss The Archers here! If you don’t give a ha’porthfor Pip come and add your two penn’orth - we do enjoy a bit of change counting (especially if it’s in old money)

[Bittermints]

Many thanks to @LilianGish for the title (again - she has real gift for this!). Further thanks due to @PseudoBadger for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads and to @DadDadDad for being our resident statistician and keeping the ball rolling when Pseudo stepped back a bit.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other odd unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

(Change counting references arose specifically out of a nostalgic discussion on the previous thread, if anyone is intrigued.)

Excellent, detailed BBC TA blog synopsis on Greg written by Keri Davies.

what a huge enterprise it is

Yes! It's amazing how it has grown from almost nothing. Elizabeth's fortitude and ambition since she threw in her lot with Nigel has been really astonishing. They were such a good team - his wacky ideas, her ability to make them work ...

When you put it like that Quater you can see that LL really is Elizabeth (and before that Nigel and Elizabeth). She’s done an amazing job without him, but it’s hard to see how it can go on without her (or possibly Lily). A complete newcomer like Glen can’t hope to keep that vision going however brilliant he is (I can see now why the sacking of Geraldine - which felt a bit contrived when it happened - was necessary for things to reach this point).

I would have thought for an enterprise that size there would need to be a number of managers, is Glen the operational manager for the whole show, its not very clear. He must be managing staff who have been in a senior position for some time and know the ropes. Although obviously that brings another raft of issues.

Goodness, I'd forgotten all that detail about Greg. Helen's track record with men is pretty awful, isn't it?

Many thanks for the new thread, Bittermints & LilianG

What astonishing acting from 'Elizabeth' last night (can't remember actresses name). Utterly convincing - and moving.

However, agree with OnceUponAGiraffe's comment upthread about the subsequent sibling discussion about MH being rather laboured and patronising.

BTW - did anyone else notice the background clinking of bottles and sound of endless wine being poured the other day when Alice was talking to Brian. Subtle and clever, I thought......

Hmmmm. Slightly niggled with the clumsy walk-through about depression: Shula's beating up of self for not going in to the doctor's with Elizabeth: clue - she's an adult. Ditto sharp intakes of breath about a doctor prescribing sleeping tablets for, er...insomnia. Elizabeth could top herself with paracetamol or jump off the Tree-Top Walk. Or get attacked by a hawk.

Also proposed secrecy. How many more times can the SWs milk this tired old trope? If trope-milking is a thing.

Agree Elizabeth's breaking down was tip-top acting.

Picture of a trope in the wild please!

Oh god - is trope-farming Tom's next bright idea?

sooooo, who is making that call to lily so she comes back to take the reigns?

Actually, now I think of it, tripe can be cooked in milk, so why not a trope. What's a vowel between friends?

tripe can be cooked in milk

Well yes echt, but should it?

Belated thanks for the new thread. Elizabeth's breakdown was incredible wasn't it?

Hello everyone, found the new thread but am miles behind on listening. An Elizabeth suicide storyline would make sense of all the Jill "all the family together for Christmas" foreshadowing.

We are only 5 ish weeks away from Freddie being released (early March?) assuming he serves half for good behaviour. Could we have Freddie arriving home from prison to find his mother passed out close to death?

I’ve said it before and I say it again. Elizabeth needs help, Brian and Jenny are at a loose end...

Jenny could probably do quite a lot. She is past retirement age but she is used to organising things.
I'd contact Lily. As long as she doesn't bring CallMeCocklodger with her.

If I ever have a breakdown under no circumstances would I want Brian's assistance. At least Jenny would make nice food and be comforting, he would be useless.

I know I'm repeating myself but why are KDS keeping something so important a secret from Lily and Jill? Okay Jill might not be so useful but if this was either my mother or my daughter I'd be fuming if anyone as, frankly, moronic as those three took upon themselves to sort it out without notifying me.

David's 'I'm no expert but I did a course or something and it's depression", Shula's self pity and Kenton's I'll go round tomorrow and stick my foot in my mouth some more. Oh great. Good stuff guys. It's great they know, now can we involve some grown ups please?

also
A BYOB wedding where the hosts order in alcohol in from a supplier, many offer sale or return policies so you only end up paying for what is consumed, is very different proposition to bringing a bag of tinnies to your local Indian. I refuse to believe that a venue like LL would struggle to get wall to wall wedding bookings, even without a licence. Maybe not at the top rate they were used to but they could easily keep things running with a dedicated wedding manager working on a low salary + commission from each weddings profit if that were necessary.

I do feel sorry for Elizabeth but I also feel that if she hadn't been such an absolute cow to Geraldine she wouldn't be in half the mess she's in know (I do appreciate her being vile was probably an early indication of her breakdown, but still.)

I'm baffled at all the free time Shula suddenly has to join all these clubs and classes. Has she semi-retired from the stables or something? I can't believe having Alistair around was that time-consuming.

I think she is filling her evenings. I find I have loads more time when dh is away with work, and I have 2 kids in tow!

Back in the late 90s my then GF and I used to watch The Fast Show. She'd sit there stony faced until one night, a very short clip aired. A man stepped in front of the camera and said (in a cod Irish accent iirc) "My name is Tim O'Tei, I wash my hair every day". Then he walked off camera. She burst out laughing, I thought she was going to do herself an injury.

An Elizabeth suicide storyline would make sense of all the Jill "all the family together for Christmas" foreshadowing.
Talking of foreshadowing, we never got our Chaucerian Conflagration either.

Please, someone explain why the hell Tony has to be effectively asking Natasha's permission before making changes on his own farm?

Pat & Tony just seem to be rolling over and handing her Bridge Farm. I don't understand ...

Cue Natasha v Helen wars.

Tom is such a dick to his parents who have built up the farm. Basically telling them they are useless and viewing it as his and Natasha's empire to build up, viewing Helen and Johnny as little more than staff.

Although to be honest as soon as he started saying she had to be at the meeting I would have told him where to get off. They've only been going out five minutes.

And Pat and Tony so grateful she'd given them permission to go ahead with the beef. I want them to point out to her it's their farm and they'll do what they damn well like.

I also don't understand. I thought the Angus were going. Is there a problem with getting the Angus off the farm now, because of quarantine, so the solution is that the-problem-is-the-solution and the Angus don't go and stay permanently - to be part of the beef offering?

Pat&Tone do need permission because they don't own the farm any more. They are retired and Tom&Helen are the management now.